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Author Topic: Radio Detection Of REIN.  (Read 21188 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2016, 07:18:45 PM »

Ah right, I see. Erm, from memory nope ...... not distances as great as that in my experience.  I do know my colleagues up Cumbria have an on-going issue with the Virgin Pendolino train in as much as when it passes it knocks out quite a few houses due to REIN. It's only momentarily though, until the router (Get this  ;)) 'Re-trains'. Sorry.

I have only got this info by word of mouth from a 'Coach' (Lead engineer if you like .... some are good, some aren't), who knows another 'Coach' up there trying to deal with it. I genuinely don't know anything else about it but it does sound like an instance you may be referring to ??
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tickmike

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2016, 08:53:50 PM »

'Re-trains'.   ;D

I used to work on train Pantograph testing at the British Rail Research Division we helped to design the
 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brecknell_Willis_High_Speed_Pantograph'

The modern Pantograph should not produce lots on arc's (sparks), if it happens a one point there could be whats called a neutral section in that location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_line

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=x-raw-image:///f207101f721b7d48c898e12d000eee66bdc685324fbd2255b067e699da99c073&imgrefurl=http://www.siemens.com/download?DLA14_41&h=333&w=629&tbnid=SH0bch8QB_JK7M:&docid=J97ztb2UsGDYnM&ei=86HYVu-kC8HWUf7OncAN&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiv6qPpsKXLAhVBaxQKHX5nB9gQMwhHKB8wHw

You can get arching at a neutral section.

I was involved in interference investigation near London but I found it was a Sewage pump not the railway.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

tickmike

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2016, 11:48:16 PM »

Up-date on my REIN  :) investigation  .

Here is an interesting graph !.
You can see on the LHS when it gets dark the downstream dips, then two copper line tests (done by the REIN team [maybe] looking in to what is causing the dip) this upsets the upstream for the rest of the night.
I resisted re-booting. while they are still testing.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

tickmike

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2016, 02:09:07 PM »

Just had news from my isp
"I've finally had a response from the REIN team. They detected REIN at a third party premises. As a result they've sent an access request letter to that premises requesting permission to continue their investigation."

Maybe if they let them investigate we may get some results at last.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

Weaver

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2016, 06:53:22 PM »

 ;D
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NewtronStar

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2016, 09:48:39 PM »

If this is any help 98% of my generated errored seconds seems to come from my next door neighbours premises it is a semi detached and once they leave and go to the country house for 4-5 days the ES count drops almost to 0 ES per day.

We know when there back when we here that yappy jack russell  >:( and a increase in errored seconds.
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Barnyard

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2016, 04:41:44 PM »

Has anyone tried to use the DIRECTIVE 2014/30/EU to enforce either the owner of faulty equipment or BT/Openreach to resolve the issue of R.E.I.N? This new legislation came into effect recently and basically says that equipment should not cause interference but also and Interestingly, the EMC Directive also requires that equipment should be immune from interference, i.e. the drop lines supplied by BT/OR. I am in a situation where faulty equipment has been proven but neither the owners not BTOR are willing to do anything about it. I have consulted my local Trading Standards and although they agree they cannot prosecute either companies as the issue has been ongoing for over 3 years. I am awaiting a reply from Ofcom regarding this situation and will report back here once I have something to add.
I wonder if there are any BTOR engineers here that may be able to add anything to this? Has this new Directive been discussed with you? If not why? Can you raise it with your managers?

Quick excerpt from the Directive :
Definitions:
(4)   ‘electromagnetic compatibility’ means the ability of equipment to function satisfactorily in its electromagnetic environment without introducing intolerable electromagnetic disturbances to other equipment in that environment;
(5)   ‘electromagnetic disturbance’ means any electromagnetic phenomenon which may degrade the performance of equipment; an electromagnetic disturbance may be electromagnetic noise, an unwanted signal or a change in the propagation medium itself;
(6)   ‘immunity’ means the ability of equipment to perform as intended without degradation in the presence of an electromagnetic disturbance;
(8)   ‘electromagnetic environment’ means all electromagnetic phenomena observable in a given location;

Some food for thought there for anyone suffering this very annoying problem!

All the best.
Barnyard
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2016, 05:12:56 PM »

My understanding of EU directives is that they have no effect, until (if ever) they are passed into law by member states.   If BT, or Trading standards, were to be legally compelled to take action it would need to be on the basis of some piece of UK legislation, not an EU directive.  If no such UK legislation exists, the EU directive is largely irrelevant to ordinary citizens, organisations and companies.

Happy as always to be corrected, but that is my understanding.  :)


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William Grimsley

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2016, 05:33:10 PM »

If this is any help 98% of my generated errored seconds seems to come from my next door neighbours premises it is a semi detached and once they leave and go to the country house for 4-5 days the ES count drops almost to 0 ES per day.

We know when there back when we here that yappy jack russell  >:( and a increase in errored seconds.

Have you ever found what may be causing the REIN issue? If you do, wait until they go away again and then shoot it! :lol:
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 05:35:39 PM by William Grimsley »
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Barnyard

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2016, 05:58:00 PM »

My understanding of EU directives is that they have no effect, until (if ever) they are passed into law by member states.   If BT, or Trading standards, were to be legally compelled to take action it would need to be on the basis of some piece of UK legislation, not an EU directive.  If no such UK legislation exists, the EU directive is largely irrelevant to ordinary citizens, organisations and companies.

Happy as always to be corrected, but that is my understanding.  :)

Read Here: http://findlaw.co.uk/law/government/european_law/basics_european_law/eu-directives.html

It does not need to be passed into law. It is a directive that each member state must abide by.

I must forward this to Ofcom as they seem completely useless at doing anything correctly and worthwhile  ;D
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ejs

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2016, 06:36:58 PM »

Read Here: http://findlaw.co.uk/law/government/european_law/basics_european_law/eu-directives.html

It does not need to be passed into law. It is a directive that each member state must abide by.

Your link doesn't seem to support what you said, it says that EU directives do need to be made into UK laws.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2016, 06:40:05 PM »

Read Here: http://findlaw.co.uk/law/government/european_law/basics_european_law/eu-directives.html

It does not need to be passed into law. It is a directive that each member state must abide by.

As ejs says, the link seems to support my understanding that the only people affected by a directive are the member state legislators (our MPs), as they are required to create a National law that encompasses the directive.   But until (if ever) they do so, it has no effect on the rest of us.   That remains my understanding, or am I missing something?

Edit:  Remove quoted material & acknowledge ejs.   :)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 07:02:04 PM by sevenlayermuddle »
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Barnyard

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2016, 07:09:36 PM »

I can see what you are saying, it is somewhat confusing  ???  However after taking a lot of advice from Trading Standards and CE they both state that it is in fact applicable. I am still awaiting Ofcom's response and if they agree also I am going to be taking on two Mammoth companies with more legal clout than I dare think about.
This makes for a more digestible piece of reading and makes it a bit clearer. http://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/what-is-guide-to-key-eu-terms/eu-legislation-what-is-an-eu-directive.html

Cheers  ;D

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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2016, 11:37:52 PM »

I can see what you are saying, it is somewhat confusing  ???  However after taking a lot of advice from Trading Standards and CE they both state that it is in fact applicable. I am still awaiting Ofcom's response and if they agree also I am going to be taking on two Mammoth companies with more legal clout than I dare think about.
This makes for a more digestible piece of reading and makes it a bit clearer. http://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/what-is-guide-to-key-eu-terms/eu-legislation-what-is-an-eu-directive.html

Cheers  ;D

As far as I can see, that link merely supports what I have stated as my understanding, and supports what the previous link said, albeit shrouded in 'ifs' 'buts' and 'maybes', that EU directives must be passed into state law before they take effect.

Which Trading Standards Office have you spoken to?   Time was, they were an organisation with real teeth, you could call up and speak to somebody who'd get the job done, but iirc you needed to contact the office where the offender's head office was located.  In more recent years they've become pretty much inaccessible, hiding behind 'consumer direct' and lately 'citizens advice'.  :(
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Black Sheep

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Re: Radio Detection Of REIN.
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2016, 08:44:22 AM »

I've been REIN faulting for a number of years now, and the way I was told and still appears to be the case, is that we have no powers to remove offending items from EU's premises or 3rd party premises.

That is apart from amateur radio hams. The reasoning being that they are knowingly broadcasting as opposed to say a 3rd party who has cheap LED lighting that emanates HF noise.
I have only had one Ham's equipment found to be a source of REIN (In the beautiful Ribble Valley), and he was more than helpful.

As regards your comment, "BTOR aren't willing to do anything about it".    We have already gone outside of our current remit and investigated the source of the REIN affecting your circuit ..... for free !! Openreach don't get paid to do this from anyone, it is a goodwill gesture.
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