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Author Topic: Beefy UPS  (Read 6774 times)

Weaver

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Beefy UPS
« on: February 18, 2016, 11:24:36 PM »

I have a couple of UPS already, an APC one 90 can't remember exactly and another one whose pedigree I don't recall just now.

I'd like to get a more beefy device with a longer run time. It's just to power
 * three modems, DLink DSL-320B-Z1
 * an Ethernet firewall/ router (Firebrick FB 2500 is indeed very low power)
 * a HP 1820G switch
 * a Zyxel WAP
and no PCs, dealt with by other ups.

I need it to have a healthy runtime sufficient to survive a power cut of several hours, or until I can get some help getting the generator going (extremely rare occurrence).

I haven't got anywhere near doing a current budget for that lot or any further towards fixing an an actual runtime. I just know I want to get highly reliable kit, above 100 perhaps rather more if I get better value for money that way.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 11:27:45 PM by Weaver »
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jelv

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2016, 11:58:39 PM »

I have two UPS with one used in a very similar to the way you intend (FTTC modem, router, 8 port switch and a QNAP NAS with a single disk). It's a APC Back-UPS CS 350. It says the estimated run time on that is just over an hour.
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Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled

Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2016, 12:16:36 AM »

@jelv sounds like your ups is in the same class as mine, but something I have running must be more of a current hog. Perhaps the old switch a Netgear 24-port unit. I forgot to mention the double mains filtering on the output of the ups, before the modems, a Tacima unit and a Belkin AV mains filter, perhaps that wastes a lot of energy.

So I'm looking for something a lot more heavy duty than that class of kit, with substantially greater runtime.
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Chunkers

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2016, 04:54:51 AM »

I have two UPSes - a second hand APC 1500 unit (1kw) and a relatively new 800 (480W).  I think they are both excellent units and given how much cheaper the Cyberpower unit was I would definitely buy another.  The APC units are in my experience pretty bomb proof as long as you don't mind exchanging expensive batteries every 2-3 years.

I would describe my APC unit as fairly meaty, it certainly weighs a lot and it looks after 3 PC's and all my network stuff and gives enough power for a short outage and to allow everything to shutdown properly. In past I have bought second hand APC units off ebay with new batteries and they always seem to last OK.

I am no UPS expert but from the runtime graphs for my UPS you will get a max of 100 minutes at 100W so for the kind of duration you are talking about even with a tiny load you are going to need quite a big unit.

I am guessing look at the runtime graphs on the manufacturers websites based on your calculated load.

A quick look suggests that for a 50W load for 120 minutes you need a 2200 VA UPS, that IS meaty (and expensive).  Are you sure you need so long?

GL!

Chunks
 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 04:57:55 AM by Chunkers »
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Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2016, 05:42:01 AM »

> A quick look suggests that for a 50W load for 120 minutes you need a 2200 VA UPS, that IS meaty (and expensive).  Are you sure you need so long?

No. ;D is the honest truth.

Thing is, no one wants to get up in the dark, starting generators up when the weather is vile, so if I can sail through a short outage then that would be very welcome.

In the daytime, we need time to get the generator going first, and then it needs to be able to cover the time when the generator is being refilled later on.
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Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2016, 06:01:30 AM »

Since I can't combine them (HCF!), I could increase capacity by assigning the devices to individual UPS's. Highly undesirable in so many ways, and very wasteful. I need to find out the real power draw of these devices. Perhaps I'm missing something here. Basically all I need is a really really big fat huge battery, lots of kg of something.

There was a thread while back where the backup battery capacity in a telephone exchange was discussed.
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Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2016, 06:12:57 AM »

Does anyone know anything about these people?
    http://www.powercare.co.uk/product/netpower-2000va-ups
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Chunkers

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2016, 06:18:41 AM »

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Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2016, 06:28:54 AM »

Referring to that link I posted earlier, powercare, I can see VA and W, but I'm not interested in how high the current delivery can be. I want J, to get to the run down time. Am I going mad? I just can't see it anywhere.
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Weaver

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 06:31:02 AM »

Sorry clunkers, never any sun, Sod's law, when you need this. It's always as black as night.
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guest

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 06:41:15 AM »

How old are the batteries?
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Ronski

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 06:49:26 AM »

I've got a Smart-UPS 1500VA LCD 230V at home, and we also have one at work, the batteries are not expensive so long as you don't buy genuine APC ones. I recently purchased two replacement batteries (it takes two batteries) for the works unit and they came to 53 from Allbateries.co.uk

At home I have a server, my modem, 16 port switch and my projector running off of it. The projector is currently off (standby) and run time is estimated at 123 minutes with a load of 9.1%. Unfortunately it doesn't report the load in Watts, at least not that I can find quickly, but the server draws  80w to 100w roughly, the switch 6w, not sure on what the router draws, and there is another bit of equipment which draws 8w.

My home UPS is 5 years old and I've never replaced the batteries, the works unit has had them replaced twice, these UPS's carry out self tests and set off an alarm when the batteries need replacing, which is really easy to do and can be done with the equipment still powered up.
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guest

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 09:40:44 AM »

Worth noting that the self-tests on the APC units (used them for the best part of 20 years) are largely useless in terms of warning you of battery degredation due to their very short duration. By the time it generates a warning the battery is probably down to 30% of its initial capacity.

The "Calibration" function is the one you want to use every 6 months or so as that will accurately test the battery capacity. That's where the "Runtime" estimate comes from.

I have the same model (no LCD display) and for the load you're pulling then 5 years is about the maximum time I'd want to use the same batteries. Obviously this doesn't just depend on how many power cuts you have, it depends on the limits you've told the UPS to switch to conditioning the mains input (which requires battery usage). We have (historically) had a lot of overvoltage here so that has an adverse effect.

For the kit we're talking about here then you can more or less equate VA as W as power factor will be close to unity - probably about 0.95, maybe a fraction lower depending on the number of mains fans. The Powerchute software shows you capacity as a percentage of 1500VA on the UPS status page.
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jelv

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 09:42:47 AM »

Have you considered the option of an inverter and a big leisure battery to provide long period power while keeping the UPS to cover brown-outs and short duration failures? It would mean powering things down to swap over. Extending the run time of that option is just add another battery.

Add an 80A solar panel and during daytime it would extend the run time considerably!
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Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled

Ronski

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Re: Beefy UPS
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 10:15:06 AM »

@Rizla, thanks,  I'll have to find the calibration option and give it a go. Power at home is pretty good, very few power cuts or over voltages.
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