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[burakkucat]

Having taken Weaver's hint, b*cat has worked, stealthily, through all the posts of this thread and removed all errant apostrophes (where necessary) from the subject line . . .

[Weaver]

Burakkucat gains a pat on the back from the apostrophe police community liaison officer, otherwise his reward will be in heaven.

[Weaver]

Pedant's.

[aesmith]

It shouldn't really be a problem to have pairs without dial tone, after all these pairs have been used for many years (decades) for a whole lot of services that don't carry audible dial tone if any, ISDN-2, Kilostream, Analogue Leased Lines (unbelievable available until very recently), SHDSL, EFM, and certain 2meg services which are sometimes delivered over copper rather than fibre.   I'm sure there are plenty of others.    So there's no real excuse for Openreach to mess up a line just because they can't hear a dial tone.

[Weaver]

No there's no excuse for it, but A & A were presumably pretty cheesed off when one of their customers got zapped suddenly, out of the blue.

[ejs]

Do this NTE c idea and the modem/router with ata  being required is IMO BT being obstructive

From my reading of BT STIN 517, the ATA part is definitely not mandatory. You don't need to have any voice re-injection ability. If the voice re-injection is required, then you need a suitable SOGEA faceplate, which only fits onto the NTE5c. I'm not sure the NTE5c is required if you aren't doing any voice re-injection.

Not supporting the Openreach modems is probably more about Openreach VDSL2 modems no longer being supplied at all, by the time the trial finishes. I expect they'd work the same way as any other VDSL2 modem would work, but eventually the Openreach modems will be no longer supported, in the sense that there won't be replacements available, and no firmware updates. This is the same as for any ISP offering FTTC, the Openreach modems will no longer be available, and the ISP will have to supply something.

[burakkucat]

Pedant's.

Do I see an errant apostrophe, above? 

[burakkucat]

No there's no excuse for it, but A & A were presumably pretty cheesed off when one of their customer got zapped suddenly, out of the blue.

From memory, as it was quite a while ago when I read the entire story, I believe it was a sub-contractor from Kelly Communications or M J Quinn and not an Openreach technician. Also, I believe it was one of their own staff's VDSL2 circuit . . .

[burakkucat]

ejs' recent post of his understanding agrees with my own, after reading the relevant BT STIN517.

[Weaver]

> Do I see an errant apostrophe

Indeed you do. I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist it.

[NewtronStar]

How does the VOIP obtain the ring signal on those phones ? with POTS I think uses a pulse/voltage from the exchange to execute the ringing signal.

[burakkucat]

Very crudely, a signal (to "Make Some Noise") is sent as a data package to the adapter and the adapter generates the "ringing" cadences (of AC voltage) for any attached telephones.

[aesmith]

How does the VOIP obtain the ring signal on those phones ?

Do you mean incoming ringing, i.e. your phone ringing when someone calls you?   If we're assuming SIP signalling, then the incoming message is a SIP "Invite" giving details of the incoming call such as the number called, and the calling number.  Your phone then decides whether it should ring in response to that Invite, and the ringing tone will be generated by the phone itself.

[WWWombat]

How does the VOIP obtain the ring signal on those phones ? with POTS I think uses a pulse/voltage from the exchange to execute the ringing signal.

Just to build on the last 2 answers...

The same problem is encountered by any telecom technology that is no longer "POTS". Phones using ISDN had this problem, as do mobile phones, as do cordless phones, as do PCs with a headset.

Nowadays the "phone" is intelligent, and responds to packets/signals/messages that tell it what phase the call is in - and the phone decides for itself what kind of indication/notification to present to the human.

In the case of a VoIP adapter, with a dumb analogue phone attached, then the intelligence is inside the adapter instead. It gets the dumb analogue phone to ring by giving it the same AC voltage that would have come from the exchange - but it could choose to use different cadences if it wished.

[NewtronStar]

You guys are just wonderful and if we ever get VOIP i'll go for phone that is intelligent that responds to packet signals as the AC/voltage causes to many US errored seconds during the pots ring on my circuit.

An with that in mind what happens with a line that never gets the AC voltage which can cure a HR issue in the short-term