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[tommy45]

According to this report BT are currently trialling their SOGEA in my area http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/12/bt-confirm-uk-trial-locations-for-standalone-fttc-fibre-broadband.html
I have confirmed this by the output from the ADSL checker tool, listed as available,
https://thecomputerperson.wordpress.com/2015/12/23/new-bt-master-socket-faceplate-nte5c-2/

Why the need for a different NTE?  also would this also apply to customers who already have an active FTTC and voice srvice, so would or should be a migration of the voice PTSN onto the SOGEA platform?  If they are insistent on visiting the EU premis to install one of these new NTE c's  what benefits to the end user would they offer over their existing  NTE with BTOR supplied flaceplate ?

I can see how it would benefit BT  as they will no doubt be charging the providers for this, and the provider will almost certainly pass these charges on by insisting on a 12mth or longer min term and or increasing the rental price for the SOGEA product ,

[Weaver]

I'm afraid I don't understand the diagrams at the end of that article (first URL) one bit. Why is the pink line going into the modem? Pink is analog voice? I thought the whole point was that it's naked DSL. Totally confused (and full of pills and fatigue).

[burakkucat]

Unfortunately two separate items of information have been merged into one --

• SOGEA trials in selected areas.
• Trials of new network termination point designed, in the long term, to be an "as and when" replacement of the current NTE5.

I find it rather mischievous that the new type of network termination point has been designated as an NTE5c.

The current NTE5 can be either an NTE5/A or an NTE5/B by changing the lower front face-plate. (The /A presents the standard BT telephony socket and has IDCs on its reverse for the connection of extensions. The /B is a blanking plate, no telephony socket, with IDCs on its reverse for the connection of extensions.)

The new basic network termination point, the "NTE5c", is proposed to accept a number of different face-plates -- not all of which have yet been manufactured in any quantity (if at all; still in the "vapour-ware"/planning/design phase) -- and may be changed as a result of long-term experimentation & testing.

The confusion is "helped along" by BT's STIN517 referring to both the SOGEA trials and the new network termination point, the "NTE5c". 

[ejs]

There are some details in BT STIN 517 (which also contains the same diagrams).

I thought the main thing with SOGEA is that there is no voice service from the exchange. The voice service, if you want one, would be supplied over VoIP, and if you want it to use it with ordinary telephones and existing phone extension sockets, then the modem/router has to generate the analogue phone signals and these need to go to your internal wiring - but this needs to be isolated from the existing Openreach phone network.

BT STIN 517 describes various different faceplates for the NTE5c, some with switches, for all sorts of scenarios depending on if you want to put the modem on an extension socket or only on the master.

I think some sort of new filter is needed to keep the "reinjected" voice signals within your internal wiring and off the line back to the exchange.

[Weaver]

Oh no I get it, the direction of information on the pink cable is the reverse of the usual. It's injecting an analog signal into the socket to be distributed to extension wiring behind the faceplate? Is that right.

[burakkucat]

Is that right.

Absolutely correct. 

[benji09]

  In the old days of data circuits using audio modems, a DC wetting current of a few milliamps was applied to the circuit to try to overcome HR joints in the cable network. Where you have no working telephone on your broadband circuit, unless DC wetting is applied, there will never be any DC current flow to overcome any HR joints that might exist. Does anyone know if DC wetting current would be applied to those circuits that are without a telephone connection ?

[Dray]

Whetting current is one of the things being trialled in SOGEA.

[tommy45]

 I thought VOIP was a broadband data technology  ie that you where able to use via a pc or a special handset? if so why the need for all this?

[Weaver]

VoIP is an Internet technology. I think they're still thinking in old think about preserving telephone extensions and so on. We don't need any of that now in most cases because of the availability of DECT phones.

The weird re-injection of analog voice from out of a VoIP box into a faceplate of a new type of NTE5 is part of this possibly over-the-top complexity.

[Weaver]

The title of this thread need's to be "SOGEA Trials" btw. No apostrophe.
Apostrophe Police.

[gt94sss2]

BT's engineers also need a way to identify a SOGEA line. If it has no dial tone, there is always the real risk that an engineer will reuse the line for something else otherwise.

[Weaver]

RevK had this problem with Andrews and Arnold copper DSL lines that have no voice service, so in the end he put an audio recording of some sort onto the lines to keep the Openreach engineers from stealing a line and giving it to some other customer. See:
    http://www.revk.uk/2015/03/naked-dsl.html

This is going to be a problem if we ever get naked DSL with full spectrum allocation to the DSL, Annex I or J (yay!).

[WWWombat]

The AA problem will likely deepen when SOGEA only ends up using the copper fragment on the D-side, with no physical involvement of the E-side at all!

[tommy45]

The document confirms that ISPs will also need to supply SoGEA customers with a broadband VDSL (FTTC) router that may also include support for analogue telephony (ATA), which would for example make it possible for you to connect your phone / handset into the router and use a VoIP / phone service for calling. Many routers already support this, but not all of those currently being supplied by ISPs do.

“SOGEA is generally expected to be a self install (PCP-only) provision with CPE Enablement (ie CP provided modem/router with integrated ATA if required) with NTE5C faceplate where a SOGEA isolation faceplate is required for voice reinjection. The service will not be supported if an Openreach modem is connected in the customer premise. Appointed install options will also be available, including installation of NTE5c and faceplate where required, but will require a CP modem,” says BT.

It’s clearly noted that the SoGEA service will be available as either a managed install or customer self-install, much like current FTTC packages. However if the ISP finds that “voice reinjection around a customer’s existing homewiring is required” then Openreach will need to provide a special SOGEA faceplate that will only fit the new style NTE5C backplate (this relates to your BT Master Socket).

Customer premises that do not have a NTE5C will require that their existing NTE is replaced with a NTE5C. You can get an idea of how BT envisages this setup working below, which appears to be much the same as using a normal VoIP equipped router. Otherwise we should get more details next year

From the ISP review site,  This new NTE c is a waste of money, and why wont BT OR  Allow the use of their own supplied modems on a SOGEA line,? it's ridiculous to put it politely , Not all of us are interested in VOIP  and some that are use a software solution on our pc's with a headset Do this NTE c idea and the modem/router with ata  being required is IMO BT being obstructive,In a bid so this doesn't have a big take up as it's their main source of revenue that cash cow called line rental, by insisting on a 3rd party device being sourced from CP's this will mean many not offering SOGEA, certainly the big4 (including plusnet) that limits the number of SOGEA lines, it will also be a unnecessary barrier for those like me, i'm not interested in VOIP Why should i be forced to buy new hardware that i won't benefit from  if i want SOGEA ?