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Author Topic: Ethernet cables next to mains  (Read 7861 times)

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2015, 03:06:03 PM »

For solid core cable on the reel, I do usually buy cheapest I can find, from a reasonably reputable supplier (say, the likes of  screwfix or amazon), that claims conformance  to the category I require (cat 5e or better is fine for domestic gigabit).   The chances of lying about conformance is small, imho, so one cable reel is as good as another.

For made-up patch cables, I tend to look for branded names.   Trouble is, even though the wires inside and twist rates might conform to category there is plenty of scope for manufacturing faults, and cheap and nasty RJ connectors that break.   I have had a couple of Amazon cheapie patch cables that were DOA, no continuity on one of the wires when tested.

I seem to recall, when cabling my own home network, that the network adapters on most machines and OS's are capable of reporting how many bad checksums they've seen, though I can't remember off hand how you get at them.   Once working I rarely saw numbers other than zero, even after running for days on end.   Only exception was when a switch was slowly dying, and I saw error rates soar, which at least confirmed the counters do work.

The adapter on my windows XP, a Dell of about 8 years vintage, has a  'cable test'  feature buried away somewhere in 'device manager'.   It gives an indication of cable quality, and an estimate of distance to any fault.  Again, proved useful when cabling my own, highlighted one dodgy IDC connection (my fault) that otherwise appeared to be working well.
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Weaver

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2015, 03:28:35 PM »

@sevenlayermuddle - I have always bought Belkin made-up Cat 6 UTP or STP patch cables, but the Cat6 STP ones are very stiff, almost unusably so because they can act as levers where they stick out from a network socket and end up yanking on the socket like a dentist using a lever to pull out a tooth. I also buy patch cables from netshop.co.uk. I only buy Cat 6, or nowadays Cat 6a SFTP cables.
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Weaver

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2015, 03:44:58 PM »

A TP-Link switch that I used to have had a cable test feature on it if I remember correctly.

Unfortunately the switch went more than a bit weird on me, so I've had to retire it and have gone back to the old Netgear switch that I was using before. Thank goodness I kept the old one around, as it's back in regular duty now, it's just getting a bit old.
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tickmike

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2015, 12:52:19 AM »

Most of my network cables run with, next to, on top of, cross over eg. all things you should not do  :D and I NO have problems with my home network. :)

Quote
Re.
IEE wiring regulations used to forbid anything sharing a route with power cables


IEE regs is a recommendation only it's not enforceable.  :o
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 08:52:22 PM by tickmike »
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Weaver

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2015, 01:01:56 AM »

@tickmike  -Well that's good to know from my point of view but not so good for you.

In that case if you can't move the cables which is often not practical then try double shielded patch cables (SFTP cables) from Netshop, Misco, Amazon or wherever. Belkin patch cables are good too. Use Cat 6 or Cat 6a cables if there is any chance at all of you going  gigabit, and use ones with good quality metal plugs on the ends snd gold-plated contacts which eill stay clean. That should help a lot, but don't leave things as they are because these problems can be a nightmare to debug and cables only cost a few pounds.
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tickmike

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2015, 11:16:12 PM »

If it works leave it alone  :hmm:
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2015, 08:37:37 AM »

@tickmike.....can you confirm or deny that you DO or DO NOT have trouble with your network..

Quote
and I have problems with my home network. :)

..The smilies in your previous posts  may point to you not having trouble with your network.

My 2 lengths of cat5e cable runs alongside main cables for about 6 m (under the landing floor) and I have no troubles at all.

Ian
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JGO

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2015, 09:22:33 AM »

What Spectral Bandwidth does Ethernet use ?  Does pure 50Hz  interfere with it ?
Or is it common practice to have a 1kW spark transmitter as backup for the data link and due to lack of filtering this leaks into the supply http://forum.kitz.co.uk/Smileys/kitzemotes/smiley.gif
What was someone saying the other day about REIN and facing responsibilities ?  or does this only apply when other people are causing REIN ?

The point is that if crossing a 50Hz cable causes interference with one data link it may well cause it to others so the source needs dealing with.


 
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 10:52:29 AM »

The point is that if crossing a 50Hz cable causes interference with one data link it may well cause it to others so the source needs dealing with.

I completely agree, the trouble is the interference may have a cause over which we have no control, and so may struggle too fix.

An example was a couple of decades ago.  My Washing machine appeared to develop an intermittent fault, it worked some days/times but not others.   Coincidentally, a bedside clock started to run fast, gaining several hours in the space of a few hours, but only at night.   I eventually figured out both had a common cause, an overload of garbage on the mains wiring, that occurred when the street lights came on.   An AM radio held near the wiring proved the theory to my satisfaction, and a bigger smoothing capacitor across the clock chip's 50Hz input pin restored clock function.

Getting the street lighting fixed was paramount, but you can imagine the obstacles I encountered trying to get the local power company and authority to even understand my accusations, let alone investigate them.   It took months.   Meanwhile pragmatic approach was the extra smoothing for the clock, and the washing machine was only used in daytime as I didn't fancy modifying its electronics.

Point being... I have never experienced mains interference on ethernet and suspect it is highly unlikely to occur.  But if it does, getting it fixed may not be that easy, and ways may need to be found to live with it...
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Weaver

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 09:57:12 PM »

I think that I clearly need some more reading matter on this. "What if anything does pure 50 Hz do?" that's a good question. I had only considered mains with lots of harmonics in it.
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tickmike

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2015, 08:54:12 PM »

@tickmike.....can you confirm or deny that you DO or DO NOT have trouble with your network..

Quote
and I have problems with my home network. :)

..The smilies in your previous posts  may point to you not having trouble with your network.

My 2 lengths of cat5e cable runs alongside main cables for about 6 m (under the landing floor) and I have no troubles at all.

Ian

Typo  :-[   I have NO problems with my home network.
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tickmike

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2015, 09:05:34 PM »


Getting the street lighting fixed was paramount, but you can imagine the obstacles I encountered trying to get the local power company and authority to even understand my accusations, let alone investigate them.   It took months.

Looks like I have street lighting still upsetting my ADSL2 each day through the year, time changes as daylight hours change.

Any tips for getting it sorted.
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.

sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2015, 09:12:25 PM »

Any tips for getting it sorted.

Well in my case, it all predated DSL.   The interference was extreme, knocking out a washing machine and a clock, let alone DSL.

The only real clue was that a street lamp right outside the house was flickering a lot, and sometimes on, sometimes off.   It didn't bother me in itself but I had a hunch it was part of the problem, so I started pestering the local authority that it was a road safety issue that needed fixed.   They responded and, co-incidence or not, the problems went away about the same time that the bad street lamp got fixed.
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AArdvark

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2015, 09:47:38 PM »

Any tips for getting it sorted.
A well known method .......
Do you anyone with a Skip Wagon?
It only takes 5 minutes and is very effective.
 :D :D
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tickmike

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Re: Ethernet cables next to mains
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2015, 10:03:37 PM »

Any tips for getting it sorted.

Well in my case, it all predated DSL.   The interference was extreme, knocking out a washing machine and a clock, let alone DSL.

The only real clue was that a street lamp right outside the house was flickering a lot, and sometimes on, sometimes off.   It didn't bother me in itself but I had a hunch it was part of the problem, so I started pestering the local authority that it was a road safety issue that needed fixed.   They responded and, co-incidence or not, the problems went away about the same time that the bad street lamp got fixed.

I think it's the new  street lights with 'Electronic ballast'  giving out lots of 'mush' over a lot of frequencies because it seems to attenuate a lot of tones and I loose about 6 dB on my 'SNR Margin'


Any tips for getting it sorted.
A well known method .......
Do you anyone with a Skip Wagon?
It only takes 5 minutes and is very effective.
 :D :D

Our village would be very dark, just might get a few complaints.  ;D
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I have a set of 6 fixed IP's From  Eclipse  isp.BT ADSL2(G992.3) line>HG612 as a Modem, Bridge, WAN Not Bound to LAN1 or 2 + Also have FTTP (G.984) No One isp Fixed IP >Dual WAN pfSense (Hardware Firewall and routing).> Two WAN's, Ethernet LAN, DMZ LAN, Zyxel GS1100-24 Switch.
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