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Author Topic: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP  (Read 7813 times)

Chris P Duck

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ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« on: July 09, 2015, 09:31:24 PM »

Hi all :)
2 months ago my connection went down for the best part of a day, when it came back I had lost about a 1/3 of my speed, tried a few reconnects throughout the day, exactly the same. Line looked like this before hand-
Attn 46.5 db
Target SNR 6
Connection speed around 5.5 to 6.2meg
permanently connected to test socket
Since this issue, synch is at about 4-4.5 meg. (enough loss for iplayer etc to not work properly)

A few emails back and forth to ISP (coms.com) and basically they are saying they think a noise issue is the fault. A few years ago I did have a noise problem, I monitored the margin with routerstats which showed something was knocking my margin out a few times a day causing a raised target margin and lowered speed profile. Suddenly it stopped and after week or 3 the line settled back down.

Back to the current issue, I have tried reconnects at all times of the day and get the same slower speed. Once connected, routerstats shows a a steady margin with no sudden drops.
ISP says they will arrange an engineer to investigate a noise fault but I will have to pay if none is found. I would pretty much bet that no noise fault would be found.

What do I do? What could be at the route of this? There has been a lot of work recently on fibre rollout to my cabinet, could it be related?


« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 09:41:44 PM by Chris P Duck »
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NewtronStar

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 11:41:32 PM »

ISP says they will arrange an engineer to investigate a noise fault but I will have to pay if none is found. I would pretty much bet that no noise fault would be found.

If there is a fault after the Master Socket (MS) IE: user specific extensions that are the cause of noise you will be charged, anything before and including the MS as long as you have not made a mess of the wiring you won't be charged even if no fault is found.
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 07:45:35 AM »

Connected to the test socket
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kitz

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2015, 01:12:26 PM »

Hi Chris,  LTNS & hope you are keeping well.

If your SNRm graph is keeping at a steady 6dB, then its highly unlikely to be noise.

A sudden drop in speed without any changes to SNRm or attenuation is most likely to be physical deterioration of either internal or external wiring.  Since you've eliminated internal wiring then its looking like a physical change in line condition or perhaps even crosstalk.

Your mention of eminent fttc is also interesting because I have seen slight changes to some adsl lines occur just before new cabs go live.   It shouldn't happen but the fact that it has been noticed several times does mean that perhaps there is scope somewhere that something that shouldn't be disturbed does do.

I'd have a pile of my old stats to hand to show the engineer of what your speeds used to be.   I'd be doing the tea & biccies with the OR engineer and make sure you stress that it was an abrupt change that occurred after an outage.     
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2015, 11:21:54 PM »

Well, I have asked for an explanation yesterday why they think its noise. No reply yet. Will paste in the reply (if I get one)
If I move to fibre, I dont want to be carrying a fault to it!
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2015, 11:28:21 PM »

here you go, bearing in mind their records should show show a steady 5-6 meg line for ages-

We had a broadband outage yesterday (12/5/15), now it is back on we consistently connect at approx 4.5 meg with an SNR of 6db even after several reconnects.
Before this we connected at 6 meg plus.
We are on adsl2+ with a attenuation of 47db.
Can you please investigate where our lost speed has gone?
---
I can see that your line profile had Interleaving on.

I have changed this to a fast path profile, please could I ask you to reboot your router and retest.

---
Done that, if anything its slower but that could be due to line noise given the time.(early evening)
I don’t feel it is related to interleaving as it  was on prior to the recent downtime so it would seem something definitely changed unrelated to interleaving.
---
Beginning to see a fair amount of erroring going in both directions on this circuit which may indicate some localized interference.

Has the Line filters been changed at all please? And have you plugged into the BT test socket as well please.

---
The router has always been plugged into the master socket, not changed the filter
---
I have changed the profile of the circuit to an interleaved 9db SNR one.

This may well be more suitable than the 6db fast path you were on previously as your circuit is 3.2km long.

---
Can you please change the target SNR back to 6db
The higher you raise the target SNR the lower the connection speed will be. Now it is set at 9 I am barely connecting at 4 meg.
My target SNR has been 6db for a long time and connecting at between 5 and 6 meg without issue.
Please return my line to 6db and investigate why it is has had a drop in connection speed.
---
*returned to 6db*
I just wanted to share with you the trends of erroring on this circuit.

There is small but consistent amounts of erroring all day and on everyday. There is also upstream erroing which will be the cause of overall throughput degredation.


This erroing on the upstream starts at approximately 10:00 each day and ends 19:00 - 21:00 each evening. This kind of erroing is caused by localized interference.

The Synch speed remains at a constant 4.5meg (attainable rates are higher but unrealistic)

---
Could you just clarify why you think my synch has gone from consistently connecting at approx 6 meg to connecting at 4 meg if the noise issue is intermittent? Surely when the noise is absent I would connect at the higher rate?
---
The throughput (speed) issues you are seeing are most likely being caused by interference on the line.

The majority of this is downstream, but also quite a lot upstream as well. Upstream erroring and interference is normally caused by something on or close to your premises that is creating an electromagnetic field that is on the same wavelength that your ADSL modulates on.

Here is a useful link that will tell you a little more about the problem
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm *hahaha*

In the meantime it would be worthwhile checking your house or the location of the router to make sure that there is no other electrical appliances/devices that could be causing any interference.



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kitz

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 04:36:17 AM »

Quote
There is small but consistent amounts of erroring all day and on everyday. There is also upstream erroing which will be the cause of overall throughput degredation.

What router are you using... and are you graphing your SNRm?
It would also be interesting to graph the errors if possible using DSLstats (depending on router) to see how many there are.    DLM should tolerate a certain amount of errored seconds per day. 

If its upstream erroring..  try doing a Quiet Line Test and check that theres no noise on the line.
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 09:42:34 PM »

Netgear dg834gt
Been watching snr a few times with routerstats, not seen any crazy sudden drops etc
Not familiar with DSLstats?

Can erroring cause a drop in connection rate like this?
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 10:44:25 PM »

Just looked at the dsl stats site, doesnt seem to be a windoze 64bit version, not sure if I can use the 32bit (using win 8.1 64bit)
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burakkucat

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 10:49:09 PM »

Just looked at the dsl stats site, doesnt seem to be a windoze 64bit version, not sure if I can use the 32bit (using win 8.1 64bit)

I think it might just require 32-bit compatibility libraries or some such . . .

Would it do any harm to try the 32-bit version?  :-\
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roseway

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 10:51:13 PM »

Just looked at the dsl stats site, doesnt seem to be a windoze 64bit version, not sure if I can use the 32bit (using win 8.1 64bit)

It works on 64-bit Windows. There are no special requirements.
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tbailey2

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 10:58:20 PM »

Just looked at the dsl stats site, doesnt seem to be a windoze 64bit version, not sure if I can use the 32bit (using win 8.1 64bit)

I think it might just require 32-bit compatibility libraries or some such . . .

Would it do any harm to try the 32-bit version?  :-\

I run DSLstats 32-bit under 64-bit Windows 8.1 no problem...
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2015, 12:04:05 AM »

Thanks, will have a play with it asap
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 01:02:25 AM »

just a quick update, been away so not had chance to try DSLstats yet but I have also discovered my ISP (coms) has been bought by "timico" (never heard of them) and Im due to be migrated this week I think so maybe something will change with the connection. Will try and have a go with DSL stats too.
Cheers so far!
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Chris P Duck

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Re: ADSL2+ issue Getting nowhere with ISP
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2016, 10:49:23 PM »

Appreciate this is an old thread, may have stumbled across the answer.

I was with ADSL24 (remember them?) on MAX, when the line was moved to 21CN I noticed a significant improvment. I found out in the last few days I am on TalkTalk LLU since Coms.com/Timico took over. Could the loss of speed be a result of moving from 21cn to LLU? If so is it possible to move back to 21cn with another  provider
It's all a bit moot now really as since this thread started fibre has become available and it looks like I will be off soon!



The following services are available in your location:

    BT Wholesale ADSL
    BT Wholesale ADSL Max
    BT Wholesale WBC (21CN)
    BT FTTC
    TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
    Sky Broadband

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