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Author Topic: Netgear D7000  (Read 43891 times)

clithes

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2015, 06:19:40 PM »

Either way you're in!

Will be keen to know how it performs, i'm thinking of upgrading my D6200 which is currently linked to an HG612 to access VDSL
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2015, 06:30:13 PM »

Good to see NETGEAR gave gone back to the old telnet method rather than that weird cmd thing they had for a while :)
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PhilipD

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2015, 10:27:56 AM »

Hi

My review for what it's worth:

Build quality observations

Make no mistake, Netgear have made the D7000 as cheaply as possible, it doesn't feel like a 170 router/modem.  The plastic is flimsy, it uses the same case as used on the R7000, but doesn't need to, so the result is a huge footprint of mostly empty space.  Whereas on the R7000 a large heat-sink takes the heat out to the lattice/vented edges so they have some purpose (see image here http://gadget-help.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sm.in_3.600.JPG), this is not the case on the D7000. On the D7000 those lattice tapered sides contain fresh-air, and a tiny cheap unpainted aluminium sheet of metal attaches to the Broadcom SoC that faces downwards on the underside of the circuit board.  Whilst the newer CPU probably runs cooler and doesn't need as large a heat-sink, the heat-sink however is effectively sandwiched between the bottom of the router and whatever surface it is placed on (rubber feet lift the case by a only around a millimeter), and it gets pretty warm underneath and that is without it doing very much work.  All those lattice vents resulting in an over-sized box do not help in cooling, but the lighter weight caused by an insignificant heat sink adding little ballast, makes it feel very cheap and light.

The Ethernet ports are made from the thinnest plastic (on the R7000 router they are metal).  The antennas, to save a fraction of a penny, have nickle rather than gold plated threads, which isn't best practice for GHz frequencies.

Another knod to this being made as cheaply as possible is that the circuit board is not the trademarked Netgear blue variety, but bog standard green.  Why does this matter?  It suggests strongly the design and manufacturer of the board has been outsourced, and boards that vary from the standard green colour normally cost a few cents more, or may not even be an option from some cheaper fabrication manufacturers. So make of that what you will.

The LED indicators look good however would light up the Albert Hall, there is a switch to turn them off, but the power LED is still lit and bright, they didn't think to dim it when turning the others off.  No option to have the LEDs turn on and off by a schedule like the ZyXEL.

The D7000 feels like it should be sold for half the price, there is nothing about it that suggests a premium product.

Operation

It's been pretty solid so far, no settings I've changed needed a reboot, and no unexplained reboots, and the Web UI responds quickly.  However, the settings available are few, there are no Advanced settings despite their being a menu option for them, they aren't Advanced. The D7000 lacks a lot of router features, for example no VLAN options, no proper Firewall settings for adding in/out rules (which was once common on all Netgear products), no option to send out custom DNS servers to clients, it just defaults to always using the router as a DNS proxy, no option for additional subnets.  A lot of Advanced Wi-Fi settings are missing, Guest networks are limited to just one on each band. No backup 3G option.  Oddly with a bit of poking around a lot of these features are there by navigating to the Html page directly, including options for 3G dongles, although that doesn't mean the options work of course.  They've done the absolute minimum to get it to market.

The Web UI is essentially unchanged from 15 years ago, apart from the menus being changed with some new graphics, all the settings pages are the same old poorly formatted Html, has Netgear really not put any investiment into this area in 15 years!  An example of poor quality control, they have tabs for Basic and Advanced which have a solid 1 pixel border around them, clearly a mistake as they are shades of grey with rounded corners as used else where, it looks sloppy and doesn't inspire confidence, it would take 30 seconds to fix the markup (I've already done it and tested it in Chrome's developer tools), the fact they haven't indicates how much time and effort they spend on their products and what their quality control must be like.

Netgear Genie (app for Android and iPads) allows access to even less settings, and the irony here is if they spent some money on their Web UI and used a responsive design (like Bootstrap), the Web UI would work perfectly on a mobile device so you wouldn't need an app!

Wi-Fi

For all it's over-sized antennas and lofty claims over Wi-Fi speeds, it performs no differently to the ZyXEL it replaced although I didn't expect it to be any better.  Range seems much the same and so far Wi-Fi devices have connected with no issues.

Modem

Only tried on VDSL, however the D7000 gives the same SNR and speeds as the ZyXEL, and it has been stable, however my line is fairly short so I'm not taxing the modem at all.  No settings are available in the Web UI for changing an ADSL/VDSL parameters. For VDSL/ADSL tweaking it would need Telnet to change those settings and I expect they would be lost on each reboot.  Getting into Telnet is a hassle requiring the TelnetEnabler.exe, the older Url short cut suggests it works, however Telnet then asks for a password if enabled this way, which isn't the password used to login to the Web UI, so that doesn't help.

Conclusion

It's a lot of money for what you actually get.  There may be more benefit for anyone wanting to use USB3 drives and turn it into a NAS and so putting the 1GHz processors to better use, but the extra money the D7000 costs could be saved on something just as capable but cheaper and probablyl better build quality, and buying a dedicated NAS box.

Think I will stick with the ZyXEL and hope firmware updates make it more stable.

Regards

Phil






« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 11:15:52 AM by PhilipD »
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michty_me

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2015, 11:42:03 AM »

So not too impressive then. Pity they cheaped out on everything. I was hoping for something better. I think I'll take delivery of it and give it a test. See how it goes.
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2015, 11:58:25 AM »

Sounds like typical NETGEAR I'm afraid :(
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michty_me

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2015, 12:03:46 PM »

I know their GUI is rather on the lacking side. I could see that from the D6400.
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PhilipD

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2015, 12:23:25 PM »

Hi

So not too impressive then. Pity they cheaped out on everything. I was hoping for something better. I think I'll take delivery of it and give it a test. See how it goes.

Of course it is just my opinion, I'll be interested if you think the same.  To be fair it has worked and so far been stable, but it's just too lacking really for the price, plus I need access to a few more router options than Netgear seem to want to provide, even though it's all built in to the Broadcom software stack.  I suppose the less features the cheaper it is to tweak the UI Html to suit the new SoC and cheaper to test (if you browse the Html directory via Telnet there are references to older products).  Obviously the vast majority of people don't use or need a lot of settings, but on a premium router they should be there in my opinion.

So no not impressed, I wanted to be, but considering the ZyXEL cost 35 less and comes with VoIP and all the settings any network semi-pro might need, in a much more appropriate form factor, and with Wi-Fi which in practice (ignoring the marketing hype on advertised top Wi-Fi speeds) works at the same speeds anyway as the D7000, it just seems very overpriced.   ZyXEL just need to get the firmware a bit more stable, still some rough edges with it that can trip it into a reboot.

The D7000 case is actually a pretty good bit of design, it looks to take up less space than it actually does, but when it's half fresh air and unnecessary it just seems to be bigger than required for no other reason than a), they've already got the molding tools and brand awareness from the R7000, and b) bigger cases for consumer routers seem to be what people expect given the "newer" tech they contain. 

Quote
I know their GUI is rather on the lacking side. I could see that from the D6400.

Yes, it basically is the same Html served up in an iFrame they've been using for 15 years, but with a lot less features and options, mostly these are still there in the Html but not exposed in the Web UI to get to, and of course no guarantee the pages work anyway.  I noticed the R7000 in it's release notes on newer firmware version got VLAN options, so some more advance options might appear on the D7000, then again they might not.

Regards

Phil


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PhilipD

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2015, 12:27:46 PM »

Sounds like typical NETGEAR I'm afraid :(

Yes it seems they've not improved much over the years.
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mjgr33n

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2015, 01:50:44 PM »

Got mine this morning, so far so good, just as stable and fast on the VDSL side as the Netgear D6400 but with much faster boot up, web ui load up and the most awesome improvement is that when you apply 99% of settings it does not reboot the router, yay )))))

Also get better speed tests than the D6400 which I think is just down to the improved processor speeds, basically it can handle all the [COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR] you throw at it.

Wireless speeds are amazing, tested it using my laptop with Intel Wireless-AC 7260 which is only 2 internal antennas and trying to download a 27GB movie form my Media Server from a room on a different floor and the other side of the house though 2 walls and a ceiling I was getting around 40 to 50MB/s so peaking around 400Mbit from a distance, tests to speedtest.net only added on around 2ms from LAN connection is this scenario also and download and upload where at max i.e. 74.99/18.76 etc so no loss there either.

So basically finally have a device that has all the speeds of the ASUS DSL-AC68U but with the Stability of the Netgear D6400, obviously not quite a customisable as the ASUS but certainly slightly more than the D6400.

If anybody wants any other stats let me know etc.

But my conclusion is it is worth it for me at lest it does what I want it to and I think form everything michty_me has said this will probably the router for him ))) :P

There is now a diagnostics page which is nice here is ping result form google.com IP.

Code: [Select]
PING 31.55.184.248 (31.55.184.248): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 31.55.184.248: seq=0 ttl=61 time=8.275 ms
64 bytes from 31.55.184.248: seq=1 ttl=61 time=8.703 ms
64 bytes from 31.55.184.248: seq=2 ttl=61 time=8.155 ms
64 bytes from 31.55.184.248: seq=3 ttl=61 time=8.198 ms

--- 31.55.184.248 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 8.155/8.332/8.703 ms

Stats -

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 18 Jul 2015 13:36:03

DSLAM/MSAN type:        BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pvbH042b.d26b
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                 
Resyncs:                0 (since 18 Jul 2015 13:24:02)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  9.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not monitored
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 19999
SNR margin (dB):        9.6 15.3
Power (dBm):            12.8 -5.0
Interleave depth:        16 1
INP:                    48.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0000 0.0011
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0 12.8

Telnet Data -

Code: [Select]
adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 26113 Kbps, Downstream rate = 96469 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        9.6             15.3
Attn(dB):        9.3             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.8           -5.0

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              130             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              8               16
S:              0.0518          0.3781
L:              21468           5374
D:              16              1
I:              139             127
N:              139             254
Q:              16              0
V:              14              0
RxQueue:                60              0
TxQueue:                20              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         20              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               360581
OHFErr:         0               7
RS:             109999232               2252829
RSCorr:         2               25
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            89089           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1068327         0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         356             0
rtx_c:          0               0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        79982           0
errFreeBits:    1746029         0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    220152157               0
Data Cells:     4017457         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               6
SES:            0               0
UAS:            35              35
AS:             1431

                        Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            80614.82        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        11/11           1/1

Total time = 24 min 26 sec
FEC:            2               25
CRC:            0               7
ES:             0               6
SES:            0               0
UAS:            35              35
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 26 sec
FEC:            2               6
CRC:            0               4
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               19
CRC:            0               3
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            35              35
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
Latest 1 day time = 24 min 26 sec
FEC:            2               25
CRC:            0               7
ES:             0               6
SES:            0               0
UAS:            35              35
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
Since Link time = 23 min 51 sec
FEC:            2               25
CRC:            0               7
ES:             0               6
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
#
#
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PhilipD

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2015, 03:34:59 PM »

Hi

Got mine this morning, so far so good, just as stable and fast on the VDSL side as the Netgear D6400 but with much faster boot up, web ui load up and the most awesome improvement is that when you apply 99% of settings it does not reboot the router, yay )))))

Also get better speed tests than the D6400 which I think is just down to the improved processor speeds, basically it can handle all the [COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR] you throw at it.

Glad it is working out for you.  Surprised you get better speed test results as mine were exactly the same compared to the HG612 which went via a Billion 7800 router, ZyXEL 8924 and now the D7000, and speed tests couldn't be any faster anyway given the 80/20 sync, so it sounds like the D6400 was particularly a bad performer then? 

I agree about the boot times though, much quicker, and nothing seemed to want a reboot, just wish it was a bit more of a router than an all-in-one plug in and go affair as I may be in a small minority, but I do tend to use some of the more fringe settings :)

Regards

Phil
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mjgr33n

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2015, 03:49:55 PM »

Hi

Got mine this morning, so far so good, just as stable and fast on the VDSL side as the Netgear D6400 but with much faster boot up, web ui load up and the most awesome improvement is that when you apply 99% of settings it does not reboot the router, yay )))))

Also get better speed tests than the D6400 which I think is just down to the improved processor speeds, basically it can handle all the [COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR][COLOR="Yellow"]*[/COLOR] you throw at it.

Glad it is working out for you.  Surprised you get better speed test results as mine were exactly the same compared to the HG612 which went via a Billion 7800 router, ZyXEL 8924 and now the D7000, and speed tests couldn't be any faster anyway given the 80/20 sync, so it sounds like the D6400 was particularly a bad performer then? 

I agree about the boot times though, much quicker, and nothing seemed to want a reboot, just wish it was a bit more of a router than an all-in-one plug in and go affair as I may be in a small minority, but I do tend to use some of the more fringe settings :)

Regards

Phil

No the D6400 was very good, download and upload where fine if only one was being tested, it just lost chunk of speed when using both and all the stuff that my networking required, did not happen on the ASUS but then the ASUS had some weird other issues.

I have a server at home that does most things I need anyway.

What is it that you need out of the D7000 which is not there?
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PhilipD

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2015, 05:01:15 PM »

Hi

Things I've used on the ZyXEL which don't appear on the D7000:

VLAN and Interface grouping, really handy for offering a mobile friendly guest network, all possible on the Billion and ZyXEL, but not the D7000.  They did add this to the R7000 after some time so it may arrive.

Have DHCP assign one internal DNS address and the backup as my ISP, this is so I can access from the LAN websites easily using their external host names from an internal DNS server.  No problem on a Billion or ZyXEL router, but can't do this on the Netgear.  Easy enough to work around by entering manual DNS servers on network settings on the PC, but it would be easier to have this assigned automatically.

Wake on LAN, that has saved me quite a few times and means I can log in remotely to my home PC without having to leave it on 'just in case' and ensure I remember to do so.  This feature I've seen on D-Link/Billion and of course the ZyXEL.

No option I could see to convert the unused WAN Ethernet port to a LAN port to have 5 LAN ports, the ZyXEL can do this.

Extend the Wi-Fi beacon interval, this helps reduce battery drain on mobile devices, again Billion and the ZyXEL routers expose this setting. There are lots of settings missing on the D7000 relating to Wi-Fi that all other routers usually expose.

Nice to have the option to plug in a 3G dongle, again Billion and the ZyXEL allow this, considering this is suppose to be a flag ship DSL router from Netgear, you'd think 3G dongles would be supported, it has the horse power to run the drivers. To be fair it isn't advertised with this feature, although I kind of thought it would be given.

Being able to view the VDSL line stats from within the Web GUI, as well as being able to see uptime, NAT session usage and CPU load, I couldn't see anywhere on the Netgear where this information is shown, yet all available on the ZyXEL.

There are loads of settings and statistics available on other routers that Netgear have not included on the D7000, yes the majority people will never need to delve into advanced settings, but some of us do from time to time, and given the price and power of the CPU, you'd think they'd make the effort to provide access to more of the router options to appeal to the biggest audience.

Of course the ZyXEL hasn't been without it's issues, but it's getting better.

Regards

Phil
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mjgr33n

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2015, 06:12:39 PM »

VLAN and Interface grouping, really handy for offering a mobile friendly guest network, all possible on the Billion and ZyXEL, but not the D7000.  They did add this to the R7000 after some time so it may arrive.

Being able to view the VDSL line stats from within the Web GUI, as well as being able to see uptime, NAT session usage and CPU load, I couldn't see anywhere on the Netgear where this information is shown, yet all available on the ZyXEL.

There are loads of settings and statistics available on other routers that Netgear have not included on the D7000, yes the majority people will never need to delve into advanced settings, but some of us do from time to time, and given the price and power of the CPU, you'd think they'd make the effort to provide access to more of the router options to appeal to the biggest audience.

Of course the ZyXEL hasn't been without it's issues, but it's getting better.

Yeah and weirdly enough I am sure you could add vlans on the D6400 but not the D7000 but maybe I remembered wrong.

I always have my server on so WOL is easy enough for me when I remote to it.

The problem with Netgear is they have a business section that does not like the Home products to have too many business type features, I have a WAC120 Access Point and it has far more Wireless features than any of the D Series routers and it is only 75, the other crazy thing is why release source code for all these combined router if you can't use the DSL side of things.

Netgear could easily open up these features as they have the people and expertise to do so. I agree about the WAN port being used as a LAN port that is annoying on so many routers, it should always be an option to bridge the WAN port with the 4 port switch to have an extra port :(

Anyway, luckily I am in a better situation than most in that I have a decent Windows Server at home with decent storage and many options to configure so the most important thing for me for a router is -

1). Has a stable connection.
2). Gives me fastest speed/latency for my line for gaming/torrents.
3). Supports Wireless AC but does not have to be super amazing, has to cope with a 2 foot cavity wall.
4). Does not reboot itself at every settings change.
5). Does not need DSL tweaking (all DSL units should just be auto really IMO).
6). Can access stats somehow (telnetenable and DSLStats is okay).
7). Has VPN of some sort (once ipv6 comes to my BT exchange then will not need, or at least I will give Direct Access a go).
8). Has DynDNS access (pretty much every router has though).

I wish more manufacturers would make separate decent modems then could just buy the best premium router out there, but it just does not happen at the moment, it may change in future, but I refuse to buy a HG612 lol :P

All in all though, with my above requirements it is perfect for me.
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adrenalize

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2015, 10:07:18 AM »

Had a very quick play with my D7000 all OK so far.

I find with all these domestic routers you have to pick and choose the bits that suit you, which is unfortunate especially as I guess its due mainly to economics.

I've had hands on a couple of the VDSL ones (ZyXEL VMG8924 and the D7000) as well as a whole bunch of ADSL ones and all seem to have features missing or bugs.

I worked a long time ago in software engineering and some of these things should be such a simple fix and very frustrating when you see code reuse and hence bugs across several products.

My 'fibre' is only being connected next week so I'll see how it goes then (annoyingly self install so I'll have to grab my own SSFP!)
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ricke17

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Re: Netgear D7000
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2015, 10:13:22 AM »

Has anyone managed to successfully set up IPTV using the D7000 - I am having major problems.  I have selected LAN 4 for IPTV and used the same settings there that are for my Internet (plusnet) and have run an ethernet cable from LAN 4 to the Youview box but the Youview box says it is not connected.
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