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Author Topic: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast  (Read 11554 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 09:05:15 AM »

The York venture is indeed FTTP ....... granted, G.Fast isn't full FTTP but is still classified as 'Ultra Fast Broadband' ..... point being though that this will be rolled out way before 2025, IMHO.  ;)
More likely within the next 2yrs or so.  :)
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guest

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 10:19:23 AM »

Totally different then mate.

g.fast is frankly a ludicrous idea for anything other than niche applications & its only interest is to incumbent (monopoly) telecos trying to sweat the last penny from their archaic copper assets.

It WILL end up costing more than simply biting the bullet & installing FTTP but we live in an era of beancounters/obscene director "bonuses" - no doubt the tories will continue to pump taxpayers' money towards BT anyway so BT won't give a toss.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 11:26:37 AM »

it is but BT will be happy to compete with FTTP using g.fast as the consumers will just read the headline speed.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 11:51:30 AM »

I concur with Chrys ............. folk will be more than happy with what G.Fast has to offer IMHO. My main point though was to highlight that it is likely to be rolled out a helluva lot earlier than Riz's 2025 prediction, rather than the technology itself.  :) :)
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guest

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 12:26:29 PM »

I can't see BT installing g.fast nodes every 200m in urban areas - that IS what it'll take to "compete" with FTTP speeds.

g.fast is bugger all use* at distances over 100m unless you start using bonding (and vectoring 2.0) which increases complexity by an order of magnitude. Add in power requirements (reverse power to the remote node won't work in the UK, copper infrastructure is in too poor a state) and it'll cost an absolute fortune just to get on level terms with where Virgin cable speeds are NOW, never mind FTTP speeds.

g.fast has its place but it certainly isn't suited to widespread deployment like VDSL2.

*on UK test loop bundles (ie in the lab) you will get a maximum of 160Mbps aggregate on a 200m line - and that's only if you shut down the FM broadcast band. If BT were capable of deploying vectoring on VDSL2 (I don't believe they are) then you'd get close to those speeds using the 17MHz profile and exceed them using the 30MHz profile.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 01:37:14 PM »

rizla my guess is BT are going to deploy g.fast next year but only from cabinets so very limited coverage.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 01:48:20 PM »

Not my forte at all ...... the technologies that is ........ but our Chief Engineering department, via a nationwide road show for all engineers, were pretty confident G.Fast would work pretty well up to 200/250mtrs and were testing at reaching to 300mtrs using whatever magic these guys have at their disposal.

Forward powering will be the method deployed.

I'm sure I recall something about 106/116Mhz spectrum being involved ?? I may have this wrong, as it is purely from memory and there was a lot to take in.

As we all know by now, VM's network was incredibly selective when first put in the ground. OR don't have the same liberties as such. I don't think the big game plan is to compete at the speed levels VM's network should be capable of, (but isn't, due to poor backhaul), the predictions of 120Mbps DS speed requirements by 2025 is what our boffins mentioned. Having a Gig to hand is pure waste.  ;)

However it pans out, the impression I got from them stood there in front of thousands of engineers and all levels of management, was they are fully committed to G.Fast and saying, "I can't see BT installing g.fast nodes every 200m in urban areas - that IS what it'll take to "compete" with FTTP speeds" is of course an opinion, and purely speculative.
I've seen lots of speculation on this forum through debate, most of which tends to be proven otherwise. I hope this is the case with your assumptions too, Riz ??.  ;D ;D
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gt94sss2

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 01:49:13 PM »

g.fast has its place but it certainly isn't suited to widespread deployment like VDSL2.

Do you think any has told BT though?
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guest

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 02:12:55 PM »

I (re)designed some of the Alcatel-Lucent g.fast stuff (reduce power/increase vectoring resources on the same die size) so I'm pretty sure I know more than your "Chief Engineering dept" about the technology ;)

At 200m you will get the same speeds with g.fast as you would with 30MHz VDSL2 (vectoring 2.0) at probably 5-10 times the cost in urban areas. End of story.

The ONLY people who consider this to be either sane or cost-effective are incumbent (monopoly) telecos desperately clinging onto their copper assets.

There is a reason Alcatel-Lucent are up for sale (at any price - Bell Labs not included AFAIK) and its because no matter how clever they are & how complex the dies become, their business is dying. FTTP offers far greater speeds with far less complexity.

g.fast has its place (there are a lot of villages it'd work very well in) but its insanity on wheels to present it as the "future". It isn't & never will be.
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guest

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 02:22:17 PM »

g.fast has its place but it certainly isn't suited to widespread deployment like VDSL2.

Do you think any has told BT though?

That PR blurb is pure comedy gold : "The UK is ahead of its major European neighbours when it comes to broadband" :D

So we're ahead of (for example) Telecom Eireann? Like hell we are - they managed g.inp AND have rolled out vectoring across the network. Aggregate speeds of 140Mbps on lines of 100m are not unusual. Even ALBANIA managed to rollout g.inp and vectoring.

BT are delusional.
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loonylion

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 03:09:57 PM »

not ahead of the Netherlands either.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2015, 03:15:45 PM »

g.fast has its place but it certainly isn't suited to widespread deployment like VDSL2.

Do you think any has told BT though?

That PR blurb is pure comedy gold : "The UK is ahead of its major European neighbours when it comes to broadband" :D

So we're ahead of (for example) Telecom Eireann? Like hell we are - they managed g.inp AND have rolled out vectoring across the network. Aggregate speeds of 140Mbps on lines of 100m are not unusual. Even ALBANIA managed to rollout g.inp and vectoring.

BT are delusional.

I wouldn't class Eire or Albania as 'Major'. Different rules for itsy-bitsy size-of-a-stamp countries. Is it Guernsey/Jersey (?) that some folk like to use as a comparison to the UK with its FTTP infrastructure ?? Same with this instance, Rizla.  :)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 03:16:34 PM »

not ahead of the Netherlands either.

Whoops ............... forgot those giants.  ;) ;D
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guest

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2015, 03:22:16 PM »

Or Austria. Or France. Or Spain (yes really). Or Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland. Admittedly we are "ahead" of Italy & (for a few months) Germany. Edit - to be complete we are also "ahead" of Slovakia, Greece & Bulgaria (not by much in Bulgaria though).

That's OK though, you carry on with your "little Englander" viewpoint....
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 03:25:30 PM by rizla »
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Ronski

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Re: Danish TDC - Bonding, Vplus, G.fast
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2015, 03:57:04 PM »

The way I look at it is that FTTC got fibre out into the streets, and g.fast will move it further out and far more wide spread, each step getting closer to the end user. Look at it as another step in the direction of full FTTP

Yes it may well cost more in the long run, but at least they have income coming in from each step, which offsets it.
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