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Author Topic: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL  (Read 146134 times)

kitz

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2014, 12:49:44 AM »

Quote
I can't remember the EU standard but this will be for power reasons

I used to give that as an answer too..  but 10yrs on it doesnt cut it.
 
Not when you have connections approaching 100Mb (or more in the case of Virgin)...   not do I find it an acceptable excuse when in theory you can get faster speeds via wi-fi than you can on the LAN if its only 10/100.   Most PCs have been equiped with GBE cards for umm 5-8yrs?...  so thats why I wont accept power as a valid reason anymore.

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2014, 04:27:24 PM »

It rather depends how much power you consider significant kitz. Four GigE ports will use roughly double the power of four 100Mbps ports. That probably equates to an increase from 1.5W to 4W maximum which is bugger all in the scheme of things but....

Unfortunately they have to comply with (IIRC) the "Ecodesign" EU directives and these can be quite tight if you're trying to fit in wireless & VDSL* - one of the reasons Sky moved the power supply into the SR101/102 AFAIK. Well that and reliability. Shame the PSU design seems to be out of a first-year electronics degree but there's the third reason, cost.

The directives only apply to devices which the telecos/ISPs supply (again IIRC) but the manufacturers pretty much just use the reference design anyway which will generally be compliant with the "guidance" in the directives. Its all well-meaning stuff but politics & engineering rarely end in good outcomes.

Things will have to change soon enough.

Anyway we digress (probably too much) from the topic. When my CC isn't reeling from the slings & arrows of outrageous fortune (heh, as if) I will order a 8800NL & see how it goes.

*current generation of chipsets take quite a lot of power, which will also have to change
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jack21

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2014, 07:13:22 PM »

Concise view of performance after 6 days use, and various experiments.

ADSL2 Performance: I'm absolutely amazed by the high stability this has brought - in daylight hours - to my line. Currently, from around 04:30 to 21:00 'ish the SNRM is 6.1db with only + or - 0.1db variation. As night moves on, as usual the SNRM gradually decays by 1.5 to 2db (that is normal behaviour for any router on my line).
On other good routers, I could see, for example, my neighbour's washing machine being on (from 0.5 to 1.2db dip for the whole cycle), and there were other devices being turned on that would make 0.5db dips till they were turned off......and other momentary downspikes of maybe 1.xdb. With the 8800 set to ADSL2, all that daytime variation is absent!
The night-time decay of 1.5 to 2db is much the same as a DG834GT, and a Billion 7800 can decay by up to 3db.
No drop-outs or self-boots.

Sync Rate: Very much on a par with a DG834GT and Billion 7800.......possibly the DG834GT has a very slight edge, but its very marginal between all 3.

Tickover CRC rates are higher than others though, but not massively so - circa 1-3/min as opposed to less than 0.3/min, but when 'weather' is around, the 8800 does not react nearly as much as other routers. Edited (next morning): The CRC rate has within the last 2 hours unexpectedly dropped to near zero.

Bitswapping; maybe a little more active than say one of my DG834GT choice.......perhaps roughly 1.5 times as much....much more pronounced at night.

ADSL1 mode: Higher syn rates by +5 to 10%, but then significantly higher CRC error rates, and the SNRM stability is less good......the decreased SNRM stability and higher CRC rates make me choose an ADSL2 option.

ADSL2+ mode: lower sync rate by maybe 15%, somewhat lower CRC rate....estimate 90% of ADSL2.

ADSL2 mode: best of all, with results described above.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 11:39:44 AM by jack21 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2014, 11:19:14 AM »

The device name spelling is 'Billion BiPAC 8800NL'


Quote
A couple of Billion specific tweaks are needed in my programs, but they will not affect the stats reporting/graphing, so you should be O.K. to continue using the ZyXel as the selected modem for now.



I have now carried out those tweaks & have attached the relevant programs.

Could you please test the programs at your end & let me know if it is all still working?


For now, the ini file will have to be manually edited to change the Modem_type to Billion BiPAC 8800NL


If it all works, I’ll ask Ronski to add it to the modem selection list & release the full v 2.11 update for general download.

(I might actually name it as v 3.0.0.0 though as I've made quite a few changes, including adding ADSL compatibility for the HG612 that MIGHT also work for some other Broadcom chipped modems/routers that use 'adsl' rather than 'xdslcmd' for the telnet commands prefix).




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les-70

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2014, 01:51:36 PM »

A week after sending back my Xyxel VMG8324  :( I decided to give a 8800NL a go.  After a day or so with it I have been very pleased   :).  It has more limited specifications than the Xyxel but none of the missing features are of any concern to me and possibly most people if one gige is enough.   

   The 8800NL boots up and syncs roughly as fast as a HG612, that is much much faster than the Zyxel which took nearly 3 mins to power up, sync and negotiate.  The gui response is immediate with only a delays of 1-2 sec if a change is actually made and applied.  The Zyxel was slow and some changes lead to unexpected resyncs.  e.g. an IP change.  So far it looks like resyncs on the 8800NL only occur, as they must, when a WAN or dsl setting is changed.

  Power usage is excellent at 4 watts all connected up synced and running with wlan.  It drops to 3 watts if either the wlan or gige is not used.  If neither is used, e.g. overnight I have seen odd flicks to 2 watts on my power meter.

  On my vdsl2 connection there is a gain in attainable of 1.8Mb/s (same as with the Zyxel)and the 8800NL errors rates are much the same as with the HG612.   (My Zyxel was almost certainly faulty as the errors were very much larger with it - hence its return)

 If you wish to cap your vdsl sync it is easier on the 8800NL as vdsl can be disabled via the gui and then enabled by sending e.g. an "adsl configure --mod v  --maxDataRate 66000 16500 100000" command after power up.  On the Zyxel it does not seem possible to disable vdsl via the gui.  I seem to need this as the erratic up to 5db srnm (more usually 3-4 db) changes on my line, as other others switch on and off and go on hols seemed to cause the DLM to keep moving the connection settings about and ending up antiphase to the prevailing conditions. Note that my worst case of a 5db srnm change is about a 20Mb/s change in attainable and is possible inside 48 hours.  I have set a max speed a bit lower than the worst case so as to ensure that I always have at least 8db srnm when on fast path.  This so far has kept me on fast path and most importantly avoided daytime resyncs due to dropping snrm.  I did think the DLM would cap my speed  itself but sometimes my snrm is steady for a week or more possibly at  high or low values and the DLM just does not seem to cope sensibly. By the time it decides that my snrm has gone up/down, the srnm goes down/up

 My previous config was an HG612 and Dlink DIR655.  The wireless performance on the 8800NL seems the same as the Dir655 and is viewed by me as good. The HG612 was bridged to the DIR655 which did the ppoe, it has all ports gige.  With the 8800NL the download throughput in speed tests (with sync speeds fixed to be the same) seem to be better by 1-2 Mb/s. 

An overall attenuation figure is not reported (on vdsl) either by gui or adsl commands except for the pbParams stats.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 03:45:19 PM by les-70 »
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les-70

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2014, 01:49:30 PM »

  After a another 5 days my positive views remain.

I did play one day to see if I could swap the adsl_phy.bin with the later 039 version.  No luck as the command "adsl stop" which should cause the dsl sync to dropped (and thus allow a "adsl start --up" to load the new adsl_phy) does not work as expected.  It seems to totally freeze the device  ??? leaving no access by gui or telnet. A power on and off gets back to normal. 
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VDSL2User

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2014, 03:39:52 PM »

Hi, sorry for the delay in testing the supplied tweaked code with Billion 8800NL support but I
have been away from home for a while.
I have put the 2 unzipped files in the working directory and manually edited the modem
type in the settings file as detailed.
I can confirm that all runs as expected and I am able to harvest data and create graphs as normal.
I will run the code for an extended time now and report back if any issues show up but for now
all is looking well for the new release.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2014, 10:53:37 PM »

Thanks for the feedback, VDSL2User.

Kitz has mentioned that when her Zyxel modem resynced, the SET_HG612_DATE_AND_TIME.exe program ended up 'stuck' as did HG612_stats.exe.


Ending those processes via Task Manager got everything working again though.

I imagine the same issue would crop up with your Billion as the SET_HG612_DATE_AND_TIME.exe program should have been disabled for non-HG6xx modems - but it wasn't (assuming the Billion actually auto syncs it's internal clock with a time server following a modem resync/reboot.


I have attached a new version of HG612_stats.exe for you (Date & Time setting disabled for non-HG6xx modems), along with a new GUI version.


The included Modems.txt file also needs to be extracted/copied to the 'Scripts\Editor' folder in order that Zyxel & Billion modems (for now) can be selected via the GUI.


« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 10:56:21 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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VDSL2User

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2014, 08:49:22 AM »

Thanks Bald_Eagle1 for the new beta version.
Now you come to say I think I did see the SET_HG612_DATE_AND_TIME.exe running
and it did get stuck on a couple of occasions which needed task manager to cancel it.
I have noticed that when the Billion modem is selected the output in the GUI for
Firmware Version now reads N/A however the DSL driver release is still available via
adsl info --version (in my case it is A2pv6F038j.d24h) should this not still be listed/recorded ?
Another thing about the modem time I have noticed is after a reboot (not a resync) it does not appear
to automatically sync with the time servers, however on the opening web status page there
is a SYNC button along side the time which if pressed does set the modems date/time correctly.
I will continue to runs this new version and report back any issues that spring up.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2014, 06:40:25 PM »

Thanks Bald_Eagle1 for the new beta version.
Now you come to say I think I did see the SET_HG612_DATE_AND_TIME.exe running
and it did get stuck on a couple of occasions which needed task manager to cancel it.


Hopefully that issue is now resolved.


Quote
I have noticed that when the Billion modem is selected the output in the GUI for
Firmware Version now reads N/A however the DSL driver release is still available via
adsl info --version (in my case it is A2pv6F038j.d24h) should this not still be listed/recorded ?


As far as I am aware, The GUI reads its data from "xlogfile.txt" as stored in the same folder as "modem_stats.log"

Ronski (who wrote the GUI) could take into account any differences in the format of xlogfile.txt or I could amend its format for Zyxel and Billion modems.

Could you post a screenshot of the GUI for Ronski & me to determine the best way to deal with this?
I suppose it's 'possible' that some of the other data is being displayed in the wrong places.



Is the Billion's firmware version correctly reported in the 'snapshot' montage & the Plink logs?



Quote
Another thing about the modem time I have noticed is after a reboot (not a resync) it does not appear
to automatically sync with the time servers, however on the opening web status page there
is a SYNC button along side the time which if pressed does set the modems date/time correctly.


Maybe there is a setting somewhere in the Billion's own GUI that could determine how & when it syncs with the time servers?

My Netgear router syncs with the time servers shortly after each time it disconnects/reconnects, but I can't actually find a setting to select when it does it.


Quote
I will continue to runs this new version and report back any issues that spring up.


Thanks for that.
It not too easy to set things up properly without the actual hardware to test it on.


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VDSL2User

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2014, 07:46:47 PM »

Here is a copy of xlogfile and a screen capture of my current running 3.0 beta GUI
showing the Firmware listed as N/A
As far as I can tell all the other values are in the correct fields on the display.
If you need any further information or files feel free to ask and I will be happy to assist.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2014, 11:19:44 PM »

It seems the raw data form the HG612 & the Zyxel/Billion modems is slightly different:-

HG612:-
Code: [Select]
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.0 5.7
Attn(dB): 24.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 6.9
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 26 54



Zyxel/Billion:-
Code: [Select]
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.0             5.7
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            7.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              23



The Zyxel/Billion modems data contains a few blank rows as shown above, meaning that by the time the firmware version data command is reached, the HG612 & the Zyxel/Billion are at different rows.

Some compensation had been made, but clearly not quite correctly.


Please try the attached version of HG612_stats.exe & let me know if the issue is fixed.

If not, please post a copy of the new xlogfile.txt for me to see what differences still remain.


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VDSL2User

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2014, 07:45:34 AM »

It still appears to display N/A in the GUI, new xlogfile attached as requested.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2014, 06:43:23 PM »

Thanks for that.


I have emailed Ronski, asking him to take a look at the GUI code to see if he could apply a fix for this as I don't actually have the code for the GUI.

I have sent him the before & after xlogfiles from your connection along with an example from my HG612 connection, so he should hopefully be able to deal with the issue accordingly.



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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: BiIlion Bipac 8800NL
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2014, 07:36:03 PM »

Ronski has just amended the code for his GUI.


Please try the attached version & confirm whether the issue is now fixed or not.


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