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[door_bell]

Greetings

Been on and off for a while reading, but not really posted.

Finally been hit by something (cross talk, maybe, or just other stuff) that's reduced my potential max speeds scarily close to my provisioned limit!

I've been on the cab at around 350M for around 70 odd days now and my telnet data has always shown around:

Max:   Upstream rate = 36000-ish Kbps, Downstream rate = 106000-ish Kbps

Go away for a week and leave the wife in charge and it's dropped to 32000 and 88452

It's all working fine, so no complaints..... just, well, close.

Do we know when BT are rolling out this vectoring yet? Maybe it'll claw some headroom back 

DB

[Black Sheep]

Phase 2 vectoring trials are underway as we speak. They identified areas that could be improved during phase 1 trials, and expect further gains to be made with the latest version of vectoring equipment being trialled ?

As has been mooted on various threads, BTOR will not just roll-out any flavour of vectoring engine just to assuage a certain cross-section of individuals (I hasten to add, this is not aimed in a personal vein door_bell). Only when in-depth trials have been conducted and conclusions drawn, will it be implemented.

To try and appease the nay-sayers, BTOR are currently rolling out a 'Roadshow' for all its employees, where vectoring is actually covered in one of the sections. This is the first time I have personally seen it mentioned en-masse in such a high-end professional event. Therefore, I suspect vectoring is probably a lot nearer than I/We may have thought ??

 

[kitz]

Thanks BS for that update.  Im aware that trials are underway and I have heard a rumour that there have been some good results,  its possibly looking good on the Huawei cab front, although nothing about whats going to happen with the ECIs

[loonylion]

If/When vectoring comes to the masses, are those of us with unlocked and update-blocked hg612s going to need a new firmware? I'm currently using wolfy's one with 28 in the name (as opposed to the one with 30 in the name).

[Black Sheep]

Good question Loonylion, and I don't think there's a full and definitive answer just yet as to what exactly will be needed once vectoring is implemented ??

Just from reading and observing various forms of material, it would seem something will need to be done to avoid the EU's router becoming a 'Disturber' or 'Alien' ?? Even our Hand-Held Testers (JDSU and EXFO) will have to have a separate module for testing purposes for the very same reason, so I'm led to believe ??

However, with technology advancing at an incredible rate, maybe the Phase 2 trials have something more up their sleeves ?? It's definitely a different vectoring engine than used on Phase 1, but that's all I know I'm afraid.

Same with the ECI Cabs, Kitz, I don't know enough detail to comment, I'm sorry. 

[Chrysalis]

Black Sheep given your comments that they wont launch it without deep trials.

Given there has been no ECI trials, does that mean which one of these is most likely?

1 - ECI gets no rollout.
2 - ECI gets rollout with ECI no trials/testing (using just Hauwei data).
3 - ECI gets rollout albeit later than Hauwei as its trialed later.
4 - Both get rollout at same time, meaning Hauwei delayed whilst ECI tested.

[kitz]

Given the fact that BT stated last year that all new cabs ordered will be vectoring capable and that BT have obviously switched to just using Huawei atm, then at a guess - and it is just a logical guess - I would imagine it would be phased in.

1) Newly provisioned cabs
2) Upgrade older Huawei cabs by adding the vectoring control module
3) God knows what they will do with the ECIs.

[Chrysalis]

Its a a worringly big unknown yes.

Also what you say regarding the phasing makes sense, new followed by existing.

[door_bell]

Some good posts.

To be fair, I'm not that concerned if it does drop as low as 60, it would still knock the pants off my old Virgin 120mb connection at any time of the day.

I work at home a lot and use VOIP all day long. I was often mocked whenever I joined a conf call as I made the calls sound like they were taking place in a cavern using tin cans and string.

Not had a bad call since being on Plusnet/FTTC. As long as it stays that way, I'm a happy camper.

My worry was it being such a sharp decline with the weather being bad and sorts - I've not had a phone line for a while now, so it makes you twitchy.

D_B

[adslmax]

Given the fact that BT stated last year that all new cabs ordered will be vectoring capable and that BT have obviously switched to just using Huawei atm, then at a guess - and it is just a logical guess - I would imagine it would be phased in.

1) Newly provisioned cabs
2) Upgrade older Huawei cabs by adding the vectoring control module
3) God knows what they will do with the ECIs.

I am not sure of this one because my new Huawei 288 cabinet was installed last February 2014 and went live and my FTTC max rate at activated was 113,000Kbps down and 38,000KBps up and now after 3 months the max rate went downhill at 98,000Kbps down and 34,000Kbps up see two files attachment below:

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

[kitz]

I am not sure of this one because my new Huawei 288 cabinet was installed last February 2014 and went live and my FTTC max rate at activated was 113,000Kbps down and 38,000KBps up and now after 3 months the max rate went downhill at 98,000Kbps down and 34,000Kbps up see two files attachment below:

That will be because they havent enabled it yet on all the new cabs.
Its still in testing stage on a limited number of cabs where their performance is being monitored

[adslmax]

Ah thanks. I wish BT hurry up and they always taken so slow and took ages. I heard some guy say from openreach guy that the cabinet can do both 80/80 down and up but BT don't want to do this. Instead capped upload on 20.

[Black Sheep]

I know a guy who knows a guy, that spoke to an Openreach guy's better half, and she said they are deliberately taking their time just to annoy people. Because as part of a FTSE100 company, they have nothing better to do. Keep it under your hat. 

[Bald_Eagle1]

I knew it, I just knew it & your post proves it 


Just for idle curiosity, do you know whether ADSL or other VDSL2 connections cause the most crosstalk effects?

I see the most SIGNAL attenuation in the VDSL2 D1 band, quite a bit of which also covers ADSL frequencies/tones:-

  VDSL Band Status          U0     U1      U2      U3       U4       D1      D2      D3
   Line Attenuation(dB):    8.2    55.0     N/A     N/A     N/A    22.0    67.6     N/A   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.2    53.8     N/A     N/A     N/A    31.1    67.5     N/A

[kitz]

VDSL Band Status   U0   U1   U2   U3   U4   D1   D2   D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):   0.6   17.7   27.1   N/A   N/A   10.8   23.7   37.3
Signal Attenuation(dB):   0.5   17.5   27.0   N/A   N/A   10.5   23.6   37.3

Good question.  Im not certain.

An interesting observation on my own line is I see what would be a similar shallow dish effect in a similar region to where I saw one when on adsl 2+ which were the effects of crosstalk from adsl1 lines, so it is there.    However..  vdsl has more tones therefore any effects from adsl should be less noticeable in the grand scheme of things. (unless your vdsl line is very short and unable to use all tones in the D1 sub-channel)..  and also not to say that its always possible to get one really bad disturber, rather than a little bit from all. 

You cant even really tell that much from VDSL D1 attenuation compared to adsl and adsl2+ due to it  having many more available tones..  so the attenuation is bound to be higher.   Plus you will also be affected by any VDSL masks and powercut back..  which is harsher than on adsl1/2.

I'd say that over the years I lost a total of circa 3Mb from adsl2+ crosstalk.  Within just a few months Ive lost >15Mb on vdsl.  Theres even been users reporting immediate and very noticeable losses when a neighbour has got vdsl2.

So based on the above Id be tempted to say VDSL.