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Author Topic: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required  (Read 6730 times)

Darren

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Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« on: November 08, 2013, 01:31:51 PM »

Hi all, basicly there is a note on my DP and I wondered if anyone could shed any light on it?

Recently noticed the attainable rate had dropped ~4Mb, no to worry fortunatly the speed is still decent (sorry to those of you who aren't in that situation :() then two days ago I pick up the phone to hear pop, crackle and when ending the call I could hear one side of another conversation. Dialed quiet line test and could hear a lady speaking in a foreign language. Eye eye there's a fault here. Look at stats another ~2Mb gone, thought I'd leave it for now and see if it clears, not too bothered about the speed but hearing other conversations and possibly others hearing mine isn't ideal.

That evening I put the dryer on, and the lights dim and flicker in time with the drum changing direction. It did this a couple of times, hmm.

Next day I spot something attatched to the DP which is a metal post sticking out the ground, so I wonder over and there is a note gaffer taped to the front of it. Attatched is a pictue of the note (I've removed the name). Upon checking the modem log sync was lost for 10 mins and then another 2 mins 25mins later. Caused I presume by the engineer who left the note.

These events could well be unrelated and just coincidence. "Urgent Grounding Required" sounds serious and electrical related, but I guess not dangerous because the DP hasn't been fenced off.

What's involved in fixing this? Replacing the Ali d side with copper and putting in chambers for the DPs? hehe. Fat chance I know.

Serious though we have had moisture related faults in this very DP, one was a complete loss of sync in the pre vdsl days, the engineer wrapped it in gaffer tape which was removed at some point afterwards. Earlyer this year I mentioned it had been removed to another engineer who was round fixing a crossed line fault and then a few months later the DP changed from silver to black and looks slimmer aswell, as if a snugger fitting cover was fitted, maybe to try and keep the moisture out I don't know.

Anyway, if anyone knows what this note is about I'd be very interested to know.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 02:35:22 PM »

Nothing as interesting or serious as what you mention. It's simply an 'Earth wire' that runs up the pole (from below ground) so we can use it as a reference for testing purposes. Otherwise , we have to 'drop a lead' down to the surface from the DP block, and test from there. It save a lot of climbing up and down poles if there is an 'Earth' provided.

Some, and I wouldn't like to say who, sometimes use another working circuits 'earth', if the pole 'earth' isn't in play, to perform tests. Crazy dooods.  ;) ;D
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ryant704

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 02:38:52 PM »

Going off-topic a little, why are metal DP's used over wooden ones at some places?
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waltergmw

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 02:49:49 PM »

Hi Ryant 704,

There may be some confusion over the term DP which is usually short for Distribution Point.

I suspect you are referring to hollow metal columns where the house service drop wires are fed inside the pole to fan out from the top particularly in denser urban areas from underground cables.
I believe BT tend to use wooden poles in most circumstances especially on overhead line systems where it is necessary to staple cable loops to the pole.

Kind regards,
Walter
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ryant704

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 02:55:18 PM »

You would be correct, I often refer a pole to be a DP.

Thank you for the explanation.

I'm fed overhead in a rural area, then it will get to the train tracks and go into the metal column and continue underground until my main DP then is fed overhead normally again all the way to my house.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 04:09:28 PM »

Metal poles are referred to as 'Hollow Poles'.

They are predominantly used if there is a hazard in the immediate area .... ie: spiked railings, so that we don't have to climb.  If the tallest Hollow Pole that we use (10mtrs) is insufficient to ensure the drop-wires are above the required height over carriageways, then a wooden pole will have to take its place. Then, other factors come into play to decide whether a Cherry-picker is required to work on the DP block, or whether it can be classed as a 'Z' pole, which means we can climb if certain criteria is met.

Apart from the obvious difference in structure, HP's are utilised exactly the same way wooden poles are. They can either be classified as DP's, or CP's (Carrier Poles). CP's are used to carry the wire from the DP to the premises if it is further than 68mtrs away. For example, we have a farm on our patch that has about 70+ CP's after the DP.

We love HP's when faulting, for we don't need to climb as there is a lovely little inspection lid about 5ft up the HP, where the module is housed that connects the drop-wires to the underground feed. Personally speaking, I hate HP's when erecting a brand new drop-wire, a lot of faffing using connecting rods, sash-line and weights. Personal choice on that, though. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 04:15:22 PM by Black Sheep »
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ryant704

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 04:22:44 PM »

Thanks for both of your replies!
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waltergmw

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »

@ BS,

Being this time of the year, you could earn some brownie points by suggesting tying a sash cord to a rocket, then hold the end of the sash cord at a discrete distance after lighting the blue touch-paper inside the column!!

However, as you've got heaps of scrap sub-duct, perhaps a more practical solution might be to tie a plumb bob on to a cord inside the subduct and then pretend to be a chimney sweep.

Kind regards,
walter
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Black Sheep

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 05:46:14 PM »

Walter, many bespoke ideas have been tried to circumvent the mandatory 'rodding system'. But a rocket launcher AFAIK, has yet to be tested ?? If, the Chief Engineers Office deem it to be a 'Good idea', I'll make sure you get a mention in despatches.
On the other hand, if they deem me to be mentally ill and sack me, I'll be making my way down to Ewhurst with a wheelbarrow of my own !!

Competition is healthy …. you know that.  ;) ;D ;D
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Darren

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 11:43:02 PM »

Nothing as interesting or serious as what you mention.
What so I'll not be getting a shiny new d side... boo hisss  :P :D

I'm sorry, I thought it would be obvious from my post that I'm not pole fed, it's all UG around here apart from a few DPs closer to the cab which are wide metal posts about a foot tall.. I thought all poles had their DPs at the top so by saying the DP was sticking out the ground I presumed it would then be obvious there were no poles. It doesn't make a difference though I suppose, a ground is a ground isn't it?

So, what's involved in installing a new ground and why is the old one no good anymore, turned to dust?

As always thanks for your replys and insight, all very helpfull and fascinating stuff. The banter between you lot is entertaining too  ;D
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burakkucat

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2013, 12:08:48 AM »

I'm sorry, I thought it would be obvious from my post that I'm not pole fed, it's all UG around here apart from a few DPs closer to the cab which are wide metal posts about a foot tall.. I thought all poles had their DPs at the top so by saying the DP was sticking out the ground I presumed it would then be obvious there were no poles. It doesn't make a difference though I suppose, a ground is a ground isn't it?

For all curious kittehs, would you be able to photograph the DP that serves your premises and make the image available for viewing, please?
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Darren

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 01:02:01 AM »

Certainly, only got shots of the old grey cover though, will wait untill light to photograph the new black cover.

First is from google street view and the second I took last october while it was being worked on.
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burakkucat

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 01:13:10 AM »

Ah, now that is interesting. Thank you.

I don't know the official name for those "stumps" but I have always referred to them as "grave markers" or "headstones".  :D
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burakkucat

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 02:35:53 AM »

For Walter and anyone else so interested, I have scanned four pages of The Post Office Electrical Engineers' Journal, Volume 73, Part 4, January 1981 (pages 254 - 257) and created a PDF format file entitled The Hollow Pole.

The article was written by D. Clark, DIP.E.E., C.ENG., M.I.E.E. of the Transmission Department, Telecommunication Headquarters and the synopsis reads --

"New designs of telephone poles are being introduced into the British Post Office local distribution network to connect dropwires to customers' premises. The poles are hollow and all construction work is carried out at ground level; access to the top of the pole is gained by the use of special purpose tools. The design concept greatly enhances the safety of staff because they do not have to climb the poles and reliability of an installation is improved because the material used for the construction is more durable than wood, the traditional material used for poles."

Copies of the file may be downloaded from here.  :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 10:37:55 PM by burakkucat »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Note on DP - Urgent Grounding Required
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 11:22:40 AM »

Hi Darren

"I'm sorry, I thought it would be obvious from my post that I'm not pole fed, it's all UG around here apart from a few DPs closer to the cab which are wide metal posts about a foot tall."

Alas, it wasn't obvious, at least to me.  :) I suppose it comes down to interpretation of the wording. It's easy for someone to assume that overhead-fed 'Hollow Poles' mentioned in my previous post, could be called 'Metal posts' by unassuming EU's. Which is why both I and Walter, went down the path we did.  :).

I have to say, the photographs of the DP you've put up are as rare as hens teeth, in my neck of the woods. I've only ever seen them on a council estate in Liverpool when I was seconded over to that patch for a few days, years ago. So, I'm not too sure on the 'grounding regs' surrounding this type of plant ??

I have to say, I'm curious as to why it would need grounding ?? My only train of thought is that there is mains-powered equipment (ie: FTTC cab), located within touching distance of this metal-clad DP ?? As such, there could be a difference in potential, should a fault occur on the mains-fed equipment ?? Other than that, I've not a Scooby. Sorry.  :)
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