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Author Topic: Repeat fault interesting observations  (Read 14342 times)

waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2013, 05:58:00 PM »

Thank you Chris for your intervention. I am much relieved that you at least acknowledge the practicalities of the incident. For a start it would be helpful if it was clearly stated on the ticket the priority of the activities instead of suggesting an impossible method.

Whilst all human beings are error prone, there appears to be a need for some joined up processes, especially with something as obvious as a D side 1 leg dis. Surely everyone must realise by subdividing and doubling the fault process, quite probably with another engineer and sometimes without sufficient briefing, it is stretching the timescales quite disproportionately. In a semi-efficient world, one might have hoped that a quick text to the engineer who made the mistake, another engineer could pop by and at least restore the phone line in less than 30 minutes. Were that done, we could easily accept that the investigation of a working but substandard broadband service should be postponed during the MBORC period.

Kind regards,
Walter
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burakkucat

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2013, 06:19:06 PM »

There is such a process. Black Sheep has mentioned it on more than one occasion. It is the e-Viper process, which is available to all CPs.

Why do CP's not make more use of it?  :shrug2:

Perhaps Plusnet could explain, using this incident as an example?  :-\
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2013, 07:34:10 AM »

@ BKK,

The only obvious reason I can think of is if BT Openreach charge a king's ransom.

Kind regards,
Walter
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cpettitt

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2013, 11:28:13 AM »

The e-Viper process is for raising an escalation with our suppliers. Due to MBORC we have no grounds to raise an escalation unfortunately.

We do submit e-Viper requests in certain instances, but it isn't something that can be used in instances such as these unfortunately.
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Chris Pettitt
Plusnet Digital Care Team

burakkucat

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2013, 09:03:25 PM »

However the situation with this particular EU's line arose before Beattie (t.a. Openreach) declared MBORC . . .
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2013, 12:20:41 AM »

Gentlefolk,

On 22nd October I wrote:-

We note the unacceptable situation continues with the sync speed still capped at 10 Mbps where close neighbours obtain uncapped Sync speeds around 22 Mbps. As this is a continuing repeat fault will you please exert the maximum pressure on your supplier to undertake remedial actions forthwith.

In fact the leg dis blunder was initiated on 28th October which was quite inaccurately described as:-

I have spoken to our suppliers today and they have now advised that they have arranged for a engineer to visit your exchange and complete the necessary work. This should now take place in the next 48 hours and once completed I will have a further update.

We are now informed on the plusnet ticket

"Thank you for getting back to me. BT have assured me that this work is going ahead. Once all work has been completed i will have further information."

and

"INTERNAL: Holding for updates.

The next action on your Help Assistant Question is due on Thursday 7th November at 7:00am. This Question will remain open with the CSC - Faults - JF until this time."

When in fact we know the jobs are just being put in hold mode until (probably) an engineer can devote around 30 minutes to re-crimp the open FTTC & D side leg.
Until that leg is repaired it is not practical to address the VDSL fault which has been outstanding, but partially fixed, since Friday 27th September.

Whilst we appreciate that all ISPs are being held to ransom by BT Openreach and their arcane practices, a far more plain speaking-conversation would at least inform us of that condition.

Kind regards,
Walter
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2013, 03:41:24 PM »

Gentlefolk,

I REALY IS TIME that far more open dialogue is provided.
The BT culture that only they know best with the pantomimes we have observed is actually severely impeding a logical examination of the line's performance.

The only pertinent data PlusNet have provided is useless, but I suspect their first line fault teams have been groomed into subservience by Openreach procedures.
Todays example is:-

"I have spoken to our suppliers today and they have advised that the lift and shift has been delayed due to a system problem."
I interpret that as meaning they now see the 1 leg dis would preclude the L & S operation.

The actual situation is that the engineer Paul tested the line from the PCP but could see nothing wrong.
Once at the customer premises the one leg dis was clearly illustrated so he swapped to a different pair in the u/g cable from the final pole to the BT 66 box on the house.
That produced a welcome improvement but still with an inadequate upstream speed.
Later on this morning there was a power outage which has produced a further small improvement (detailed below) but the upload speed is still far too low.


@ cpettitt I trust you observe how much needless effort this is costing us all and that you and your senior managers will strive to make significant improvements to the dialogue.

Kind regards,
Walter

_________________________________

Retrain Reason:   0
Max:   Upstream rate     = 1239 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19152 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1163 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19724 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
VDSL Port Details               Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:    1239 kbps  19152 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.8 dBm    10.9 dBm
============================================================================
VDSL Band Status           U0      U1     U2     U3      D1     D2      D3
Line Attenuation(dB):      8.3    67.9    70.0    N/A    27.7    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.3    65.9    N/A    N/A    27.7    N/A    N/A   
SNR Margin(dB):            4.8    6.3      N/A    N/A     5.3     N/A    N/A   
TX Power(dBm):            1.9     5.1    N/A     N/A    10.9     N/A    N/A
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2013, 08:21:33 PM »

Here is the next response from PlusNet:-

The system was down to an internal issue with our systems that would not allocate the new pairs correctly and not the issue with the phone line. As such this issue had to be rectified before the lift and shift could be completed this issue has now been cleared. As such a lift and shift will now be completed.

Also as for the engineers notes these are not currently available as the engineer has only attended this morning it can in fact take up to 24 hours for us to have these notes available to us.

We now need to wait for the lift and shift to be completed. Once this has been done the engineer will perform a DLM reset.
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2013, 08:24:29 PM »

Here is the current Hlog which shows some form of anomaly.
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burakkucat

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2013, 08:43:46 PM »

Here is the next response from PlusNet:-

The system was down to an internal issue with our systems that would not allocate the new pairs correctly and not the issue with the phone line. As such this issue had to be rectified before the lift and shift could be completed this issue has now been cleared. As such a lift and shift will now be completed.

<snip>

What on earth is all that? Have they been on my cat-mint? The first sentence (if you can call it that) is a stream of gibberish which discloses precisely nothing.

Correction. It appears to disclose that a significant number public facing employees from that Company have had an abysmal education.

The metallic pathway is the sole responsibility of Openreach not Plusnet.
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2013, 12:48:05 PM »

We are promised a remote L&S for tomorrow 08:00 to 13:00 but rest assured that there will be a wheelbarrow in the vicinity as well as a cat and a bald eagle (and Buzzards and red Kites !) keeping a close watch on proceedings. We will provide data to Plusnet before they can !

"Our suppliers have advised me today that an engineer will now attended to complete the lift and shift tomorrow morning between 8am - 1pm. The engineer should not need to attend your premises. Once completed he should then complete a DLM reset if needed. I will now check your fault for further updates on Monday when I am next in the office."

Whether or not a DLM reset is needed, the fact that the service will be routed via a new MSAN port must initiate a training period in any case.

Here's the 06:00 data:-

Retrain Reason:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 1390 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18028 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1163 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19724 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:       1390 kbps         18028 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.8 dBm          10.9 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status          U0      U1        U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):     8.3     67.9       70.0     N/A    27.7    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.3     65.9       N/A      N/A    27.7    N/A    N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):     5.3     6.7        N/A      N/A    4.1     N/A     N/A   
         TX Power(dBm):     1.9    5.1       N/A      N/A    10.9     N/A     N/A   

Also note the BT Speed test is reporting the impossible with a throughput speed faster than the IP profile and even the 18.31 sync speed if we do the 96.79 % sum.
I suspect that is a function of the current DLM process still within the first 48 hours.
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ryant704

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2013, 01:11:41 PM »

Walter I've experienced faster speeds than my IP profile (below sync though) several times on VDSL2. Every time this has happened my line has been banded at the time, I asked Ed and he would just ignore the question.

If you could find an answer for it, though I doubt that!

More than likely they will just blame something on the computer causing it, which isn't true! If it was true the same thing would happen when my line isn't banded! :D

Though in your case I would suspect it could be some application/setting causing this to happen. There are various chrome extensions which can cause this and I know Kaspersky can cause this issue as well...
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waltergmw

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Re: Repeat fault interesting observations
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2013, 12:18:24 PM »

@ Ruant,

Thanks for your comments although we believe this is very much a network / MSAN difficulty, but time will eventually tell.

___________________________

@ Everyone

As the Plusnet member centre is down at present I thought I would add some detail here.
Yesterday we had an unexpected visit from one of our resident BT Openreach engineers who came to fix an unknown fault.
Sadly he was unaware of anything to do with the L&S !
He tested the line resulting in NFF using his JDSU.

Meanwhile this morning's 06:00 log shows these figures which are unstable and have deteriorated overnight.

Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   2
Max:        Upstream rate = 429 Kbps, Downstream rate = 18768 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 391 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15847 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859)
          VDSL Port Details         Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:          429 kbps         18768 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.6 dBm          10.9 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status          U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):     8.1    67.4    62.6     N/A    27.5    0.1    0.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    8.1    64.3     N/A     N/A    27.5    N/A  N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB):     6.6    6.0      N/A      N/A    6.4      N/A  N/A   
         TX Power(dBm):    2.0    1.1      N/A      N/A    11.0    N/A  N/A   

However I am relieved to say we have a red worm BT speed test (see picture below) which clearly indicates to all that we STILL have a serious fault to cure.
The next problem will be to get a suitably qualified and powerful PlusNet person to take ownership and resolve the problem with similarly qualified BT Openreach personell, hopefully once and for all.

Kind regards,
Walter
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