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Author Topic: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update  (Read 21600 times)

Greybeard33

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2013, 02:56:10 PM »

What seemed to happen at times with my line (at least before the upgrade) is that various tones that were initially loaded would get bitswapped down to zero over a period of days and weeks, presumably because they experienced occasional bursts of interference. This increased bitloading on the remaining tones, so gradually reducing DS SNRM, which eventually levelled out at about 2-3dB and remained stable for months. A resync would bring the "blackballed" tones temporarily back into use, so restoring 6dB SNRM without a loss in sync speed.

Too early to say if this will still occur with the new firmware.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2013, 03:00:27 PM »

I am quite shocked BE1 when I think back a year ago your current stats looked very similar to my own, apart from your crosstalk has anything been changed in your premises ?
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2013, 03:31:17 PM »


I am quite shocked BE1 when I think back a year ago your current stats looked very similar to my own, apart from your crosstalk has anything been changed in your premises ?


Nope. Nothing's changed here.

There has been a gradual decline Since December 2012, being put down to increased crosstalk.

However, the point I was making was that things are reported 'differently' via the new firmware/band plans.

It may be physical changes due to one or both of them or it could just be that the new firmware reports matters more accurately? (certainly differently) for my connection.

These differnces do coincide exactly with when my HG612's firmware was updated.

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kitz

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2013, 03:37:20 PM »

What seemed to happen at times with my line (at least before the upgrade) is that various tones that were initially loaded would get bitswapped down to zero over a period of days and weeks, presumably because they experienced occasional bursts of interference. This increased bitloading on the remaining tones, so gradually reducing DS SNRM, which eventually levelled out at about 2-3dB and remained stable for months. A resync would bring the "blackballed" tones temporarily back into use, so restoring 6dB SNRM without a loss in sync speed.

Too early to say if this will still occur with the new firmware.

Yes that is another explanation, you are quite correct in that after a line has been up for a while bitswapping at the tail end goes to zero in almost alternate tones.  You will usually find that tx power gets increased at this stage too.  However, there should still be some SNR showing for the tones which arent bit-loaded, even if it is low.
I could be wrong, but with it happening to BE on a fresh resync and many of those tones showing as 0dB (real) SNR I suspect its more to do with the floor level & tones being disregarded by the router as unusable.   
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bbnovice

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2013, 05:22:59 PM »

Hi,

For information I show my stats before and after the firmware update. The pre graphs are for 24 hours and the post graphs for 12 hours (my updated happened on the night of the 25/26th) - unfortunately I'm now getting some strange graphs if I try and plot over 12 hours - however this is probably down to me running some beta programs and I've now got my kickers in a bit of a twist regarding version control. I'm awaiting the next "official" release of the stats programs and will then a clean install and start from scratch. Any idea when that might be?

I was obviously running the unlocked firmware from Asbokid before the BT update but had disabled the BT agent. There had been a previous attempt by BT agent to update the modem which seemed to have failed. I also lost both telnet and GUI access. So I reflashed with the unlocked firmware but this time disabled BT agent. Also following the clue given by Howlingwolf's comment in another thread regarding changes to the default config file I then imply turned the modem led lights out via the GUI, logged out, then logged back in and enabled the led lights. Hopefully this was enough to change the default config. This time I also disabled HGstats data harvesting.
 
Subsequently I woke the BT Agent up and the modem was updated with the new BT firmware the following evening - this time telnet access remained. I made no other changes other than firing up HGstats to restart logging and graphing.

To my untutored eye there is not much difference to the before and after graphs, although US bit swapping does look slightly different.

I also attach parameter data from before and after. As you can see the band plan has changed to get rid of the US/DS overlap and some other minor tweaks. DS speed has improved somewhat.

Regards BBN
         

             
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ryant704

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2013, 05:35:41 PM »

Well, this firmware was rather big for me.

Before hand I would get 0 Bitswaps for hours on end, since the firmware update I'm now having 54 bitswaps a minute for hours on end.

I believe I have the same as you two...
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2013, 06:06:58 PM »


I also attach parameter data from before and after. As you can see the band plan has changed to get rid of the US/DS overlap and some other minor tweaks. DS speed has improved somewhat.



Something looks a bit odd there.
Neither of those pbParams band plans that you posted look like they are from a HG612 with fully updated firmware.


This is what most of us have seen that are connected to Huawei DSLAMS:-


This was the previous band plan from ages ago:-

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959)




This is the intermediate band plan from a HG612 that hasn't had its firmware updated:-

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3971)




This is the band plan from a fully updated HG612:-

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3970)

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bbnovice

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2013, 06:13:52 PM »

Bald Eagle,

See attached.... I think that is the version of the BT Update?

Regards

 
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2013, 06:19:10 PM »


It is the new firmware version, but your band plans don't match what others are seeing, so it looks like only a 'partial' update?



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bbnovice

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2013, 06:29:01 PM »

BE.....

I'm now way above my pay grade.

I've just interrogated the modem again, and can confirm that the band plan is the still the same as that shown (for the post update position) in my previous post.

So I'm at a loss.

Maybe I'm just special?   :lol:

Edit: I disabled BT agent after the BT update. Should I wake it up again if the modem has only had a "partial" update?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 06:35:57 PM by bbnovice »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2013, 06:51:57 PM »


Maybe I'm just special?   :lol:

Edit: I disabled BT agent after the BT update. Should I wake it up again if the modem has only had a "partial" update?


That can only be your own decision.
I don't have a great connection & the slightest thing seems to upset it.
However, as I have never attempted to block anything, I thought I'd at least try out the firmware update for a while.

 
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burakkucat

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2013, 09:22:34 PM »

<snip>

Checking the modem's time via telnet this morning (typing "date" at the Busybox prompt - without the quotes), as expected the time was one hour fast as on VDSL2 connection's the modem's date/time aren't synchronised with any time servers.

The modem's time doesn't seem to be used for much anyway (other than date/time stamping events that we can no longer see now that we don't have GUI access).

<snip>

Not having a powered-up HG612 within paw-reach I am unable to confirm the following . . . so please test and see, yourself.
  • Establish a telnet connection to the HG612
  • Log in as usual
  • At the ATP> prompt, issue a display log command
I'm sure Asbokid has documented quite a few of the commands that are applicable at the ATP> prompt . . . but I just can't remember exactly where!  ::)
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Chrysalis

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 03:28:16 AM »

What seemed to happen at times with my line (at least before the upgrade) is that various tones that were initially loaded would get bitswapped down to zero over a period of days and weeks, presumably because they experienced occasional bursts of interference. This increased bitloading on the remaining tones, so gradually reducing DS SNRM, which eventually levelled out at about 2-3dB and remained stable for months. A resync would bring the "blackballed" tones temporarily back into use, so restoring 6dB SNRM without a loss in sync speed.

Too early to say if this will still occur with the new firmware.

I used to see that all the time on adsl.  Its probably a common things on lines with weak snr, and especially when is interference.

I think bitloading if it ever turns a tone off, it then stays off until a new sync event.  So as you said the overall snrm goes down.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 03:35:12 AM »

What seemed to happen at times with my line (at least before the upgrade) is that various tones that were initially loaded would get bitswapped down to zero over a period of days and weeks, presumably because they experienced occasional bursts of interference. This increased bitloading on the remaining tones, so gradually reducing DS SNRM, which eventually levelled out at about 2-3dB and remained stable for months. A resync would bring the "blackballed" tones temporarily back into use, so restoring 6dB SNRM without a loss in sync speed.

Too early to say if this will still occur with the new firmware.

Yes that is another explanation, you are quite correct in that after a line has been up for a while bitswapping at the tail end goes to zero in almost alternate tones.  You will usually find that tx power gets increased at this stage too.  However, there should still be some SNR showing for the tones which arent bit-loaded, even if it is low.
I could be wrong, but with it happening to BE on a fresh resync and many of those tones showing as 0dB (real) SNR I suspect its more to do with the floor level & tones being disregarded by the router as unusable.   

the bitloading adapts to available snr kitz.

in my adsl days generally my modem would mark the tone unuseable once bitloading hit 0, if I ever seen a used tone hit 0 it became unused until a fresh sync event.

I dont know if vdsl is still the same but on adsl 3db of snr was required per bitloading on a tone, adsl1 had a min bitloading of 2 so 6db of snr was required to make it useable, with 45db of snr needed for a 15 bitloading on the tone, I remember in my ukonline days adsl2 would squeeze some extra sync with half a dozen tones using 1 bitloading with their 3db of snr but within a few hours they would all be disabled by bitswapping as far too fragile :D.  Once I seen tones get disabled their snrm would always report 0 as if the modem turned them off completely.

Obviously bear in mind the target snrm had to be factored in also, so if a 6db target noise margin was set then on adsl1 12db of snr was needed to make a tone useable and 9db on adsl2.
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burakkucat

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Re: Connection stats changes since HG612 firmware update
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2013, 03:36:59 AM »

<snip>
I think bitloading if it ever turns a tone off, it then stays off until a new sync event.  So as you said the overall snrm goes down.

b*cat nods in agreement.
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