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Author Topic: Sunday morning giggle !  (Read 6381 times)

waltergmw

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Sunday morning giggle !
« on: October 06, 2013, 10:59:54 AM »

Gentlefolk,

I am helping one of "my flock" who is totally bewildered by the machinations of the behemoth !
I have been using the on-line chat facility for this person from my home.
One member of the household has become a little paranoid made even worse this morning by TWO unsolicited phone calls from India !

I am at a loss as to how this situation can be resolved generally but it is quite apparent that totally separate and barely communicating telephone and broadband Asian fault desk teams cannot possibly cope with their tasks. Currently it is imperative that the hapless end users have to lie to say their phone lines are fine even though there is quite obviously a higher frequency VDSL fault present causing the sync speed to be capped at 40 Mbps on a line length of 350 m where we have others over 400 m syncing at the full 80 Mbps speed.

Kind regards,
Walter

_____________________________________________________

Status: Connected

VIPUL BAIBHAV: Hello. I'm VIPUL BAIBHAV. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello VIPUL Please read the document I am sending you.
 File attachment upload has started.
 The file Fault VOL12-8229xxxxxxx Appt request.pdf (784.57KB) was received.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Please set up the fault page so I can book an engineer appointment page SOONEST !
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: Totally exasperated Your case is being dealt with our Level 2 support team and we are from levcel 1 support team>Can I call you now and get your call connected to that desk?
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: NO I am away from home at present. PLEASE get the Level 2 fault desk to set up the fault page so I can book an engineer appointment.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: I am aware of the charge you make if the problem is within my house.
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: I have called your landline number and speaking with your wife
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: I instructed you NOT to !
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: ok
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: Please bear with me I am having word with level 2 support team
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: All you have to do is set up the fault page so we can decide which appointment day to select.
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: Did you report any fault on your landline?Is your landline fault being fixed?
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: The land line works and I have tried to accept the line as fixed.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: I want a broadband engineer visit
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: You need to speak with our PSTN help desk to book engineer visit.I can give you their contact details so that yoiu can have word with them.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: It is NOT a PSTN FAULT. We need a BROADBAND ENGINEER visit.
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: There is an open fault on your landline fault on your line.They will close that fault and then Our level 2 support team will book the engineer for your broadband fault
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Thank you. I have already tried to accept the phone fault as fixed.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: All I want is for your Level 2 support team is to enable the fault booking part of your on-line fault form.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: When will your level 2 support team do that ?
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: The broadband fault is still open.First the landline fault needs to be closed then only they can book the Broadband engineer
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: So when will the land line fault be closed ?
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: I can transfer your chat to PSTN help desk
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Does that mean I can continue with this chat page or do I have to start again ?
 VIPUL BAIBHAV: You can continue with this chat and I will transfer this to PSTN helpdesk
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Please do that.
 VIPUL BAIBHAV has disconnected.
 Binapani Dey: Hello. I'm Binapani Dey. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello  Binapani
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Will you please close the phone fault we have on this phone number 01483xxxxxx
 Binapani Dey has disconnected.
 Mrutunjoy : Hello. I'm Mrutunjoy . Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello Mrutunjoy
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Will you please close the telephone line fault so we can get a broadband engineer visit booked SOONEST.
 Mrutunjoy : Notes for PSTN - make sure there is already open case for PSTN fault, this fault needs to be closed as customer  telephone case is fine
 Mrutunjoy has disconnected.
 Santosh Dhavale: Hello. I'm Santosh Dhavale. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello Santosh,
 Santosh Dhavale has disconnected.
 Nishikanta Samal: Hello. I'm Nishikanta Samal. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 Nishikanta Samal: Hello,Totally exasperated
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello Nishikanta, Will you please close the PSTN fault so we can book an Broadband engineer appointment SOONEST.
 Nishikanta Samal: Notes for PSTN - make sure there is already open case for PSTN fault, this fault needs to be closed as customer  telephone case is fine
 Nishikanta Samal has disconnected.
 Binapani Dey: Hello. I'm Binapani Dey. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 Binapani Dey: There is no open telephone fault.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Please wait whilst I check that on line.
 Binapani Dey has disconnected.
 Debjyoti Nag: Hello. I'm Debjyoti Nag. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 Debjyoti Nag has disconnected.
 Santosh Dhavale: Hello. I'm Santosh Dhavale. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 Santosh Dhavale: Hi Totally exasperated.
 Santosh Dhavale: Very sorry to hear that your broadband isn't working. Totally exasperated, I am from phone line repairs, are you able to ring out and ring in?
 Santosh Dhavale: Totally exasperated,shall I ring you now on your mobile number or telephone number please?  
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello Santosh THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with the telephone. I want to book a broadband engineer visit if you will PLEASE get your broadband team to add the booking section to the broadband fault page.
 Santosh Dhavale: Totally exasperated,let me know your mobile number please?
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: NO Please DONT ring. All I want is to be able to book a broadband engineer appointment.
 Santosh Dhavale has disconnected.
 Mrutunjoy : Hello. I'm Mrutunjoy . Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Hello AGAIN Mrutunjoy
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Now can you please get your Broadband team to enable the engineer booking part of the broadband fault form.
 Mrutunjoy : Please try to understand Broadband engineer cant be booked until and unless Landline fault is open
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: But you have just closed two landline faults ! Please tell me how I can get a broadband engineer appointment booked.
 Mrutunjoy : It was done now
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: What has been done ?
 Mrutunjoy : Landline fault was closed
 Mrutunjoy : May i call you and transfer you to Level 2 department who would book an engineer for you?
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: NO I am away from home./ PLEASE GET the LEVEL TWO fault desk to enable the appointment booking part of the on-line fault form.
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: I am looking at the fault form VOL012-8229xxxxxxx but I can't book an appointment yet.

TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Are you still there ?
 Mrutunjoy : Please wait
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Thank you. I will wait.


Mrutunjoy : Ok They would call you within 1 hr
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: PLEASE get them to call SOONEST but ONLY to Book a fault. I have done all the tests already.
 Mrutunjoy : Yes
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: We can see that the broadband line has been capped at 40 Mbps when it should be 80p Mbps so we want the engineer visit to solve that problem.

TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Can you confirm that your level 2 desk will not ask any other questions please ?

Mrutunjoy : Everything is mentioned there
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: So ALL they will ask is for a convenient appointment time ONLY ?

Mrutunjoy : Yes
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Thank you for your time. I think we should close this chat session now ?
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Do you need to know anything else now ?
Mrutunjoy : Nothing
 Mrutunjoy : Thats all
 TOTALLY EXASPERATED: Thank you and good bye.
 Mrutunjoy : Bye
 Mrutunjoy has disconnected.
Logged

toulouse

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 11:50:04 AM »

That is absolutely RIDICULOUS. Did your friend start out with a full head of hair,......

.....,and how is it now ?????


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Utility Warehouse (via TalkTalk)
FTTC 40/10
ZyXEL VMG8924-B10A
ECI (approx 750 metres)

People tell me that I ought to get out more. But in the words of the great Homer J Simpson, "Yeah, but what ya gonna do ?"

waltergmw

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 12:20:45 PM »

We have been trying to get a VDSL engineer appointment since Sunday 29th September and we are now threatened with a further phone call at 14:00 this afternoon.

We've also discovered that India is looking at the downstream (fastest) rate and arguing that nothing is wrong !

Perhaps I'm fortunate in that I'm already bald !

EDIT For Newcomers, I forgot to mention that one of BT Openreach's more serious malpractices is to lock their modem down so the end user is completely unable even to observe the horrible effects of their Dynamic Line Management logic; in this case the result is quite unacceptable - considering the end user is paying a premium for such a substandard service masquerading as the fastest possible "Infinity" product. Add to that BT's "No Universal Service Obligation" so that Ofcom lets BT get away with quite outrageous breaches of Consumer Protection / Trading Standards violations without even a whimper. (@ Maria Miller & Ed Vaizey - don't forget this is part of the "Best Broadband in Europe".)

For those interested in the technical detail very generously provided by Bald_Eagle1:-

It's not looking too great as DS Interleaving depth has shot up to currently 2325 (from this morning's resync), having peaked at 2570 (from the resync at 06:55, 26th Sept.)

It was only 743 until the resync of 26th Sept.



13/09/2013 15:14 - RESYNC detected (DS 47016 Kbps, US 11541 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 0
15/09/2013 14:55 - RESYNC detected (DS 47016 Kbps, US 11541 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 0
26/09/2013 06:55 - RESYNC detected (DS 43400 Kbps, US 11541 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 2
27/09/2013 02:15 - RESYNC detected (DS 43400 Kbps, US 11627 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 0
27/09/2013 07:29 - RESYNC detected (DS 39998 Kbps, US 11671 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 2
27/09/2013 12:42 - RESYNC detected (DS 39998 Kbps, US 11836 Kbps) Retrain Reason: 0


It also appears that the DS sync speed was banded at 39998 Kbps, when the connection resynced at 07:29 this morning.



Here's the data from 14:00 on 27 Sept.:-

xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:    0
Max:    Upstream rate = 11948 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54772 Kbps
Path:    0, Upstream rate = 11836 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39998 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
      VDSL Port Details           Upstream           Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      11948 kbps         54772 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.9 dBm          13.5 dBm
============================================================================
 VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3    D1      D2      D3
 Line Attenuation(dB):   1.4     28.3    43.6     N/A 14.2    35.6    57.2
Signal Attenuation(dB):  1.4     28.1    43.5    N/A 14.2    35.6    57.2
       SNR Margin(dB):    5.4     6.0     6.2      N/A   5.9     5.9     6.3
        TX Power(dBm):  -3.6    -15.0    6.5      N/A 11.1     7.4     5.9
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 02:32:39 PM by waltergmw »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 05:55:52 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]

even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

now if I am right the DLM if it see's noise on the line as a one off then its going to take 14 days for it to recover 13th to 27th = two weeks so it looks to me the DLM is seeing constant noise rather than a burst, and could take 4 weeks to see if the DLM has capped this line

and if it's not fixed or cured by 13th of October then openreach engineer will need to make a visit.

and on a note please keep the FTTC Modem on and don't force a re-sync during the 14 days or 28 days  ;)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:49:39 PM by NewtronStar »
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ryant704

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 06:02:11 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]
even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

? That just mean's it is using tones from D3? It has no relevance if the line is capped or not. At least not at 40Mbps.

There is no play in the SNR Margins so I don't know how you will get more speed? Unless there is a fault somewhere...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 06:17:33 PM by ryant704 »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 07:07:08 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]
even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

? That just mean's it is using tones from D3? It has no relevance if the line is capped or not. At least not at 40Mbps.

There is no play in the SNR Margins so I don't know how you will get more speed? Unless there is a fault somewhere...

Sorry ryant704 I bolded the D3 as it looks like it's not being used utilized at the moment by the DLM hence the 40 cap yet it still shows these tones are available so it must be down to the High DS interleaving that's causing the D3 to be overlooked by the DLM. 
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ryant704

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 07:18:10 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]
even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

? That just mean's it is using tones from D3? It has no relevance if the line is capped or not. At least not at 40Mbps.

There is no play in the SNR Margins so I don't know how you will get more speed? Unless there is a fault somewhere...

Sorry ryant704 I bolded the D3 as it looks like it's not being used utilized at the moment by the DLM hence the 40 cap yet it still shows these tones are available so it must be down to the High DS interleaving that's causing the D3 to be overlooked by the DLM.

It's already using the tones in D3, if it wasn't using tones from D3 it would look like this (my line).

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959)

I use up to D2 (1418) and no more tones are used as I'm on a long and bad quality line. His connection is doing the same but in the D3 band.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 07:26:02 PM by ryant704 »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 08:18:13 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]
even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

? That just mean's it is using tones from D3? It has no relevance if the line is capped or not. At least not at 40Mbps.

There is no play in the SNR Margins so I don't know how you will get more speed? Unless there is a fault somewhere...

Sorry ryant704 I bolded the D3 as it looks like it's not being used utilized at the moment by the DLM hence the 40 cap yet it still shows these tones are available so it must be down to the High DS interleaving that's causing the D3 to be overlooked by the DLM.

It's already using the tones in D3, if it wasn't using tones from D3 it would look like this (my line).

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959)

I use up to D2 (1418) and no more tones are used as I'm on a long and bad quality line. His connection is doing the same but in the D3 band.

I know what your saying I also have two DS medley bands available to me, and the the op has three it does look like there D3 band (2792,4083) is not being used at the moment even if it's being displayed in the Medley Phase so it does look like Capping/Banding as the DS RESYNC is now at 39998 that's a clear sign the D3 band is not being used at the moment by the FTTC Cab DLM.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 08:22:18 PM by NewtronStar »
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ryant704

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 09:04:09 PM »


Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
]DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
]
even I as noob here can see the download is capped so why can't the ISP ?

? That just mean's it is using tones from D3? It has no relevance if the line is capped or not. At least not at 40Mbps.

There is no play in the SNR Margins so I don't know how you will get more speed? Unless there is a fault somewhere...

Sorry ryant704 I bolded the D3 as it looks like it's not being used utilized at the moment by the DLM hence the 40 cap yet it still shows these tones are available so it must be down to the High DS interleaving that's causing the D3 to be overlooked by the DLM.

It's already using the tones in D3, if it wasn't using tones from D3 it would look like this (my line).

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959)

I use up to D2 (1418) and no more tones are used as I'm on a long and bad quality line. His connection is doing the same but in the D3 band.

I know what your saying I also have two DS medley bands available to me, and the the op has three it does look like there D3 band (2792,4083) is not being used at the moment even if it's being displayed in the Medley Phase so it does look like Capping/Banding as the DS RESYNC is now at 39998 that's a clear sign the D3 band is not being used at the moment by the FTTC Cab DLM.

D3 is being used up to a certain tone, the other tones are unavailable due too bad signal. If it's in the final band it means it's being used... that's my point, tones are being used on his connection from D3. Then the SNR margins hint there is no room for improve hence why he may have more of a problem than just capping. There is .3 available assuming the SNRM target is 6, which I assume it is because I've never seen a different target margin on VDSL2 yet. You may get a little more speed from D3 but it's already using the all of the tones from D3 that is available basically, you may unlock a few more tones with that .3 even then the speed increase would not be dramatic or really noticeable (to a degree). Those tones will not be high enough to substitute a 7Mbps increase from his previous 47Mbps sync, let alone to the 80Mbps.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 09:09:42 PM by ryant704 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 09:17:45 PM »

Just to confirm that D3 is in use on the connection mentioned above, see the attached graphs & limited stats dated 15th & 27th September.

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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 09:28:38 PM »

Also...............................

From 15th:-

INP:      3.00      0.00
PER:      2.07      10.21
delay:    8.00      0.00
OR:      80.80      21.14



From 27th:-

INP:      8.50      0.00
PER:      2.21      10.60
delay:   14.00      0.00
OR:      86.72      21.12
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ryant704

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 09:36:11 PM »

Yeah, I can't say I'm surprised.

You can see on the 15th that the margins are below target hence the lower speed upon re-sync.

Appears to some form of noise/interference from somewhere, yes the line is banded but it has no room for improvement at the moment until the problem has been fixed.

Considering how bad (comparing the 80Mbps he should be getting to what he is achieving) the interference seems to be , I wouldn't honestly be surprised if something from his/her home is generating it because from the looks of it seems rather bad all of the time from the two graphs. The time stamps on the graph are one at early night and the other midday. This leading me to think it's on all the time. If the 350m premises is on the same route to this house I would imagine it's in that last 50m's but that isn't 100%.

It may also be a mixture of interference and another form of fault...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 09:38:12 PM by ryant704 »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 09:59:17 PM »

okey Dokey as I said I am a Noob  ;D but I am very sure there is noise on that line and it's up to the OP if they want to wait 4 weeks to see if the DLM has capped this line or wait to see if it recovers , now if you go down the DLM reset path you will be back to same scenario in a matter of weeks unless the openreach engineer can find the cause of this noise on the line and find it hard to believe that the DLM can become stuck on a profile unless there was a reason to do so in the first place.


it because from the looks of it seems rather bad all of the time from the two graphs. The time stamps on the graph are one at early night and the other midday. This leading me to think it's on all the time.

it would be nice to see those on-going Stat Graphs to get a clear picture here !

« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 10:32:39 PM by NewtronStar »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Sunday morning giggle !
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2013, 10:48:16 PM »

Ongoing graphs attached.
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anything