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Author Topic: Netgear Router upgrade choice  (Read 10472 times)

graevine1

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Netgear Router upgrade choice
« on: December 30, 2007, 11:37:43 AM »

Currently I have a Netgear DG834G V3 an exceptionally good router especuially as this site has provided the information to access the extended diagnostics for instance FEC, HEC errors, Interleave etc etc etc all power to those involved.
However its time to upgrade ie this will also enable us to take advantage of must greater in particular Wireless speed and Mimo technologyetc etc.
So as a trial we have purchased a DG834N but alas would like a little assistance to achieve the full diagnostics that are not available from the menue given as standard in that router, or should we be deciding on another model in the Netgear range (The choice for us is only one from the Netgear range of routers bit restrictive for us but thats life.) So has anyone got an answer to the patches necessary to use this 270Mbps N class router to provide the diagnosis of the old twisted pair feed. [Thanks to all and great New Year to all without too much Contention!! being added]
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guest

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 12:12:01 PM »

Not really what you were asking (but you probably will soon) - you are aware that the "270Mbps" is extremely misleading yes? Best case is that you'll get maybe 40Mbps sustained data transfer as 802.11n is designed specifically to support two concurrent HD streams which run around 18Mbps each. I have tried most 802.11n access points and best case is around twice the speed of 802.11g (with WPA/WPA2 encryption). Re MIMO - well I haven't seen any improvement at all in range - outside yes; inside no.

Hopefully someone else has a DG834PN and can help with the menus.
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graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 01:17:22 PM »

I am aware that it aparently will not achieve what appears to be the stated claimed speed, but it should be the highest that may be achieved.
What is most important is that we can discover the full measurements of the twisted copper pair and the service that we hope for and believe we are paying for.
That was the reason for my question.
I was led to believe that the 834N superceeded the 834 PN. I have also put in a call to Netgear and hope also they come up with some requested answers . It will all then be posted up for all to see.
Thanks for your interest, lets see how it goes.
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guest

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2007, 01:24:14 PM »

802.11n is unlikely ever to be ratified IMHO. In terms of wireless connectivity I do not believe there is a difference between the Pre-N and what Netgear now sell as the N. There may be a difference in the ADSL chipset but I don't believe so.
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kitz

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2007, 09:57:47 PM »

I dont have a DG834N therefore I could be wrong... but from what Im led to believe it is a similar chipset to the DG834NB/DG834PN.
If so then its already on the router stats page under  Netgear DG834GT / DG834PN/DG834N

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm#anchor26b

Also worth looking at is

http://www.kitz.co.uk/tute/DMTv8.htm
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kitz

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2007, 10:02:03 PM »

oh....  and if it is a broadcom chipset - then you may be interested in this for advanced configuration for the broadcom based routers.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/tute/voyager_2100_cli.htm

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graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2007, 01:27:00 PM »

Thanks Kitz, and we wish you a Happy Healthy Prosperous Year, in addition I hope your fingers dont get any shorter like mine being worn away by the keys !! Lol.

Attempted to Telnet and got the following message.

Connecting to 192.168.0.1 ... Could not open connection to the host, on port 23: connect failed

I temporally disconnected the Norton Firewall but to no avail so I guess could this be a necisity to open the Router firewall, any ideas please.
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kitz

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2007, 01:28:51 PM »

Did you put the router in debug mode first?

~ Enable debug via the web interface
http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
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graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2007, 01:44:09 PM »

Thanks Kitz, no I didnt on this occasion, put that down top a lack of the seasons necessary lubricant !!!!

Well for your files this is the result


BusyBox v1.00 (2006.10.04-06:55+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# help

Built-in commands:
-------------------
        . : alias bg break cd chdir continue eval exec exit export false
        fg hash help jobs kill let local pwd read readonly return set
        shift times trap true type ulimit umask unalias unset wait

#
#
So what do you suggest for the next stage as we wish to see all we can concerning the route to the exchange etc, in fact as much detail as we can obtain. Thanks !!
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mr_chris

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2007, 02:28:00 PM »

type the following at the command line when you're telnetted in:

/usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats

And see what it outputs.. this is pretty much all you'll get from it. You won't see anything about "route to the exchange" (not even sure what you mean by that), but the router knows nothing about that, other than it's connected!!
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Chris

graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2007, 02:55:51 PM »

Thanks Mr Chris . This is most of what we are after as you will see
/usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats

BusyBox v1.00 (2006.10.04-06:55+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# /usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats
/usr/sbin/adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime  Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 448 Kbps, Downstream rate = 358
4 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode:                   G.DMT
Channel:                Interleave
Trellis:                ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):       9.3             19.0
Attn(dB):       47.0            25.5
Pwr(dBm):       18.8            11.8
Max(Kbps):      3872            988
Rate (Kbps):    3584            448
                        G.dmt framing
K:              113(0)          15
R:              16              4
S:              2               4
D:              16              8
                        ADSL2 framing
MSGc:           1               1
B:              113             15
M:              2               4
T:              1               1
R:              16              4
S:              2.1403          4.2500
L:              912             128
D:              16              8
                        Counters
SF:             114341          114339
SFErr:          1               0
RS:             3887606         1943763
RSCorr:         137977          0
RSUnCorr:       1               0

HEC:            1               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    16430867                0
Data Cells:     35944           0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             1               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            11              0
Total time = 32 min 42 sec
SF  = 114341
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
Latest 1 day time = 32 min 42 sec
SF  = 114341
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 42 sec
SF  = 9558
CRC = 1
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 1
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 52923
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
SF  = 0
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF  = 51860
CRC = 0
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES  = 0
#
#

However , there is quiet some variation in the figures obtasined using different routers,
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kitz

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2007, 02:59:46 PM »

>> However , there is quiet some variation in the figures obtasined using different routers,

Something I noticed many years ago - way before even maxdsl came in.
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graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2007, 03:46:15 PM »

Thanks Kitz, but I am also interested in why the figures obtained for example simply in relation to Line Attn and SNR vary from router to router.

Well you may finf this usefull

/usr/sbin/adslctl info --stats

BusyBox v1.00 (2006.10.04-06:55+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# cat proc/cpuinfo
system type             : 96358GW-16
processor               : 0
cpu model               : BCM6358 V1.0
BogoMIPS                : 299.00
wait instruction        : no
microsecond timers      : yes
tlb_entries             : 32
extra interrupt vector  : no
hardware watchpoint     : no
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available
#
#

Little doubt whats inside this Netgear DG834N

My programing knowledge is years and years out of date, so must learn to read a book again and also learn to swot (and retain)

Want to find FEC errors, LCD errors, OCD errors, Line up Count, up time or show time, line up time, all will be explained later.

Ealier today using the dg834g Ver3 I found that my exchange is Ti so it would be good to find this info also. There will be more Ive no doubt.
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guest

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2007, 04:21:45 PM »

Quote
Thanks Kitz, but I am also interested in why the figures obtained for example simply in relation to Line Attn and SNR vary from router to router.

Its consumer grade equipment so all the passive components will be +/- 10% and they will vary depending on temperature. The filters you use are frankly junk (I used to design notch filters for military radar amongst other things - Rapier if anyone has heard of that) and so are your extension cables (usually). The figure you see for noise margin is (sort of) an average across the frequency range anyway.

In addition you will get increased noise at night (Heaviside layer in the ionosphere reflects more MF); the real attenuation on the line will also vary due to temperature, humidity and about 10% of UK phone lines are under water at some point in the year - I've even seen cables frozen in ice before. Then there's crosstalk, induced and conducted noise........etc etc etc

Frankly I'm amazed ADSL works at all given the output power and I suspect my ADSL2+ service is only going to get worse. SRA makes it much better but I can't see BT going for that anytime soon.

That probably doesn't help a lot :D

If anyone out there is doing a maths course then do pay attention to Fourier and Laplace transforms for they aren't esoteric nonsense that nobody uses - they are in fact one of the main reasons your ADSL works at all.
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graevine1

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Re: Netgear Router upgrade choice
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 11:15:24 AM »

Thanks to Rizla and Mr Chris and I wonder if you have any further pointers, it would be good if we could also establish from this 834N what is in use in the exchange, and the points I have raised above. Linux is not in my experience list so if anyone knows it would save so much time.
A great new year to all.
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