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Author Topic: Help to interpret line stats  (Read 6763 times)

bbnovice

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Help to interpret line stats
« on: October 03, 2013, 06:33:19 PM »

Hi,

I’m new to this, so bear with me.

I enjoy (?) a BT Infinity FTTC service (80/20). This usually provides a stable and fast service. According to the BT retail speed tester the line normally syncs at 66 and the down/up speed is usually about 60/15.

However I do experience some odd behaviour from time to time. For example the BT retail speed tester refuses to recognise my connection and will either not report any or only some line stats. The BT wholesale speed tester will continue to work normally.

Also I periodically get alarming speed variations.  Yesterday for example, the reported speeds were 55/6 down/up.  The down speed can sometimes drop even further, sometimes for protracted periods.

Note the speed tests are performed with a wired connection and with no other users logged on. The modem is connected to the BT faceplate about 6 feet away. There is no telephone extension equipment - the internal extension wiring has been severely rationalised and has a clean bill of health. The ring wire is disconnected.

Because of the problem yesterday I bit the bullet, and this afternoon unlocked my spare HG612 and installed v1.1 of the modem monitoring stats. I attach some of the “current stats” information harvested from the monitoring software.

This is the point where I need help as I don’t have the knowledge to interpret the info, So can I ask for comments about the possible health of my connection?

Thanks BBN
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 08:17:24 PM »

Hi,

I’m new to this, so bear with me.

I enjoy (?) a BT Infinity FTTC service (80/20). This usually provides a stable and fast service. According to the BT retail speed tester the line normally syncs at 66 and the down/up speed is usually about 60/15.

AFAIK, the BT speed tests report IP Profile rather than sync speed.

IP Profile should be 96.79% of sync speed (approx).

Have you worked your sync speed back from the IP Profile that is reported in the speed tests?
i.e. Sync speed = IP Profile x 1.033 (approx).



Quote
However I do experience some odd behaviour from time to time. For example the BT retail speed tester refuses to recognise my connection and will either not report any or only some line stats. The BT wholesale speed tester will continue to work normally.

For simple throughput speed tests, I prefer to use Speedtest.net as it seems to be fairly consistent in reported speeds.
However, it doesn't report IP Profile.



Quote
Also I periodically get alarming speed variations.  Yesterday for example, the reported speeds were 55/6 down/up.  The down speed can sometimes drop even further, sometimes for protracted periods.

I take it those were throughput speeds rather than sync speeds?



Quote
Note the speed tests are performed with a wired connection and with no other users logged on. The modem is connected to the BT faceplate about 6 feet away. There is no telephone extension equipment - the internal extension wiring has been severely rationalised and has a clean bill of health. The ring wire is disconnected.

Because of the problem yesterday I bit the bullet, and this afternoon unlocked my spare HG612 and installed v1.1 of the modem monitoring stats. I attach some of the “current stats” information harvested from the monitoring software.

This is the point where I need help as I don’t have the knowledge to interpret the info, So can I ask for comments about the possible health of my connection?

Thanks BBN



Your connection is on Fastpath for both DS & US (D:  1    1).

Sync speed (Path) is very close to Attainable rate (Max).

Bitloading has a fairly good appearance (gradually tailing off as frequency increases).

SNR looks quite steady with very little interference (again tailing off as frequency increases).

Apart from an insigificant 'wobble' in the Hlog graph at around tone 200, attenuation over frequency looks good (gradually increasing as frequency increases).

Background noise, from the QLN graph, looks a shade high (-140dBm would be perfectly quiet), but there is very little evidence of 'inteference' spikes from strong radio broadcasts/other users at the moment.

SNRM at around the target of 6dB suggests your connection is working at full capacity, with no scope for higher sync speeds.


The graphs you have posted are just a snapshot at the time the data was harvested, but all in all, it 'appears' to be quite a high speed & stable connection, but it had only been up for 1.5 hours at the time you generated the graphs.

It would be worth generating the snapshot graphs at different times of day or night for comparison (you can schedule these events via Settings Editor).

It would also be well worth allowing the logging to run 24/7 for a few days as that would highlight any noise/error issues over time.


My suspicion is a routing/network/contention issue rather than anything 'wrong' with the connection per se.





Who is your ISP?

How long have you had a FTTC connection?

How far do you reckon you are from the cabinet?

Do you know if many other users are currently connected?


Over time, as more users are connected, you may start to see the effects of crosstalk in some of the graphs, increased error counts, Interleaving being applied & thus lower sync speeds.

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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 11:04:00 PM »

Many thanks for the reply BE and I will respond after I have studied your comments properly.

I am wrestling with the monitoring program regarding ongoing data collection - I can create the task but it will not run. The settings editor reports the error message attached. I'm running the scripts/programs from my own user account which does not have administrator privileges. Is that the cause?

The PC is running Windows 7.

Regards BBN

   
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2013, 08:04:23 AM »

Many thanks for the reply BE and I will respond after I have studied your comments properly.

I am wrestling with the monitoring program regarding ongoing data collection - I can create the task but it will not run. The settings editor reports the error message attached. I'm running the scripts/programs from my own user account which does not have administrator privileges. Is that the cause?


I haven't seen that error message before.
My Windows 7 user account does have administrator privileges though, so I suspect that might indeed be the cause.


Quote

The PC is running Windows 7.
   


This may also be of some help (if you can access UAC without administrator privileges):-

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows7/turn-user-account-control-on-or-off
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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2013, 01:02:07 PM »

Hi BE,
Again thanks for the earlier post commenting on my connection stats and I’ve now had time to consider your response. My answers to your questions are shown below.

Before doing it may be appropriate to explain my objective. I have been a BT FTC customer for about 2 years and the connection has suffered from various different issues at various different. I won’t go into all the history as it’s lengthy, but because of the issues my internal wiring has been substantially improved, and following the latest OR engineer site visit on 30 July, the connection has synched at 66Mbs (according to the BT retail speed tester) and the up/down speeds are normally around 60/15 down/op (again according to the BT retail tester). But there can be wild variations in the speeds being reported, even when the tests are conducted only minutes apart. Whilst the upload speed stays about the same, the download speed can suddenly drop by as much as 10Mb. Over the past 2 days The speed (and the variations in speed) has intermittently been the worse I have seen.  But the DLM never seems to react. So is the speed data being reported incorrect, and is it a router/networking issue instead? Firstly I would like to have confidence that the connection to the modem is stable before I start ripping the internal network to pieces (again). Hence my original post.       

In reply to your post:

1. The BT retail speed tester states that it does report synch speed. Confusingly (to me) it also calls it the “line rate”. The up/down speeds are simply “..the actual speed you receive at your computer at the time you ran the test”. See their website. As the profile (reported by the BT wholesale tester) is 64.37/20, the 66.2 quoted as the synch speed by the retail tester must be just about correct (ie 64.37x1.033=66.5). I use both the BT retail and wholesale testers simply for consistency in comparisons and  because if I get into an argument with BT I want to quote their own figures rather than a third party such as OOKLA. I find that the speeds reported by these testers can be wildly at variance with each other. For example the following were the download speeds reported last night – the tests were undertaken within a period of 3 minutes of each other (figures rounded) -  SPEEDTEST = 54, BT WHOLESALE = 58, BT RETAIL =  59. This morning I recorded 55,57,62 respectively.         

2. Thanks for confirming FASTPATH and that the synch speed is close to the maximum attainable. 

3. I note your comment about bitloading, SNRM etc being acceptable, but the snapshot I obtained this morning shows a very different bitloading profile. Has something changed? (See attached)

4. I’m still; struggling to get the stats program working automatically, but will get back to you about that after I’ve tried some other things. It must be something peculiar in my PC setup as other people seem to run OK.

5. I concur with your suspicions that this might be an issue not connected with the actual link to the modem, but as explained earlier I want make sure of that before chasing other possible causes.

6. My ISP is BT and I’ve had a FTTC connection with them for about 2 years.

7. According to GOOGLE EARTH I’m 300 metres from the FTTC cabinet as the crow flies, and about 450/500 metres by road (there are 2 alternative routes as the houses face outwards in a big circle and I’m not sure if I’m on the longest or shortest leg).   

8. I do not know how many of my neighbours have FTTC but I suspect that the take up has been good as OR recently installed a second FTTC cabinet next door to the POTS cabinet. I was surprised by this as the housing density here is quite low by modern standards. I posted some images on the forum earlier this year. See:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12737.msg240807.html#msg240807

Once again many thanks for your help. It is much appreciated.

Regards

BBN
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 02:04:57 PM »

Until you get the Ongoing stats logging, it may be worth posting an extract from your Plink log for this morning's graphs, to manually calculate error counts/bitswaps etc. over time - just to see if anything stands out.

QLN & Hlog graph data only updates during the training up stage of a resync, but SNR & Bitloading do update dynamically between resyncs.

There is very little change in your SNR graph (good news interference-wise), but it is just possible that the stats were grabbed in the middle of a bitswapping process & thus making the bitloading in the lower tones look particularly bad.

Alternatively, it could actually be confirmation of a potential cause of your 'erratic' speed tests i.e. data maybe isn't reaching the modem due to contention/ecternal network issue(s) etc.

As the data is obtained directly from the modem itself, I don't think it's anything to do with your internal wiring as that would probably be visible on a more permanent basis, usually 'V' shaped dip(s) in the Hlog graph, indicating a 'bridged tap' etc.



Regarding getting the Ongoing logging to run, would it be possible to start the task using an Administrator user's account username & password?
By default, I believe it should still run whether that user is actually logged in or not.


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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2013, 07:09:22 PM »

Hi again BE,

After scratching around I think I've now got continuous logging working. In my case I had to install modem stats in folders within a user account that had got administrative privileges. No changes were then required to the Windows 7 default UAC settings (they remain on the highest security level). I did install the programs in the root of C:\ as advised in the written PDF instructions and then accessed the settings editor from within an administrator account.  But the monitoring task still could not be created - I kept getting an ACCESS DENIED message generated from within the actual settings editor.

Anyway problem now solved. I attach a "full monty" set of graphs but this only harvested data over an hour or so that I was testing the program set up so is probably not terribly useful. But a large range of graphs is produced - so which ones should I post in future when I have a query about connection quality/status?

Apart from my initial misadventures with WINDOWS security, this software is impressive, and I guess the development effort was not trivial. So the authors are to be congratulated.
 
Regards

BBN


   

     
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2013, 08:45:12 PM »

After scratching around I think I've now got continuous logging working. In my case I had to install modem stats in folders within a user account that had got administrative privileges. No changes were then required to the Windows 7 default UAC settings (they remain on the highest security level). I did install the programs in the root of C:\ as advised in the written PDF instructions and then accessed the settings editor from within an administrator account.  But the monitoring task still could not be created - I kept getting an ACCESS DENIED message generated from within the actual settings editor.


It's good to read that you got it working & your feedback will be useful if anyone else ever experiences the same issue.



Quote
Anyway problem now solved. I attach a "full monty" set of graphs but this only harvested data over an hour or so that I was testing the program set up so is probably not terribly useful. But a large range of graphs is produced - so which ones should I post in future when I have a query about connection quality/status?


Just post the "full monty" along with occasional 'snapshot' montages that you have posted previously so that we can see all the graphs & not just a few in isolation.



The most benefit is obtained from the software if it can be left running 24/7, at least for a few days, to get a clear picture of how the connection performs at different times of day/night & to see if any patterns of increased errors/issues emerge.

Are you able to leave it running 24/7 for a while?

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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 09:38:43 PM »

Hello BE,

Yes - I intend leaving the PC turned on and the task running, hopefully for the next 24 hours at least.

Regards BBN 
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2013, 02:38:53 PM »

Nice to see you back BE!
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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2013, 06:29:17 PM »

Hi,

Stats have run for 24 hours continuously now. I've attached the summary on-going statistics graph.

Can I now invite comments regrading the stability and performance of the connection?

Thanks

BBN


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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2013, 08:47:54 AM »

It loks like a very stable connection with incredibly little fluctuation in DS SNRM & Attainable rates.

Sync speeds look about right for around 450/500m from the cabinet.

The very slight fluctuation in US SNRM is nothing to be concerned about at all.

Bitswapping seems to be at a reasonable level, increasing in the evenings as expected, suggesting the connection doesn't 'struggle' too much at all with 'noise' interference.

All the error counts are low & to be expected as the connection is syncing at very close to Attainable rates with no spare SNR that might have made error counts even lower.

The DS & US OHF graphs don't report errors as such, but the values do tend to show an increase when there has been some delay in obtaining the stats. i.e. by the time the stats have been obtained, OHF activity counts will have increased.

I see that whenever my virus checker (AVG Free) runs full computer scans at 04:00 (see attached), despite it being set to run at lowest priority.

By default, Windows scheduled tasks are set at creation to run at 'below normal' priority via a 'hidden' setting.
I have been experimenting with forcing the task to run at 'normal' priority.
That seems to get rid of the issue caused by a slowdown of the PC.
AVG occasionally caused such a delay that the program didn't complete until the next minute, sometimes causing a data sample to be missed.

If I can get the setting of the task's priority automated, I'll include it in the soon to be released update.

Do you have anything such as a virus checker or backup program running between 02:00 & 03:00, possibly each day?




Overall then, in my opinion, any throughput speed slowdowns are not caused by physical connection issues so may be attributed to the ROUTER/Hub, something running on your PC(s) or external network congestion.


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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2013, 07:10:08 PM »

Hi BE,

Just a quick post to say many thanks for the comprehensive and interesting analysis of my connection stats.  I've only just seen your post so need to consider its contents before responding more fully.

I left the PC running so have just produced a 48 hour set of graphs but to my untutored eyes the stats for the last 24 hours seem much the same as the previous 24 hours which you have commented on.

I will get back to you later.

Regards BBN
     
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bbnovice

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 06:59:23 PM »

Hi again BE,

I’ve now an opportunity to look at the modem stats logs and consider your post in more carefully.

As far as I can see (and I’m not an expert!), the connection relatively appears to be stable and operates close to its maximum potential. I attach the latest 48 hour graphs.

In answer to a question in your previous post, I run Norton Internet Security 2013 pretty much on at its default settings. It does run “idle time scans” but there is no fixed scheduled time for running these – Norton decides when to run.  I have looked at the Norton logs and, as far as I can see, there are no Norton tasks running regularly between 02:00 and 03:00 hours. Also there are no Windows system tasks scheduled at that time and nothing in the Windows system logs jumps out at me.

Having said that, I note from the graphs that the number of US_RSCorr errors dramatically increases at 9:00pm every day (see attached graphs). This is replicated in the previous set of graphs (ie at 9:00 pm on 4/10/13) that I posted. It suggests to me that there is some external event happening which is creating interference? Am I wrong in inferring this from the data? I cannot think of anything electrical in the home that switches on/off at this time of day that might cause this.

The graphs make sense as my US speeds seem to be the path that is deteriorating the fastest. I’m currently trying to plot the data from previous speed tests to determine if there is a definite trend in that area. Using the BT retail speedtest website today at 13:07 produced a figure of 5.44 for the US speed which is ridiculous – historically it is normally over 15. This is not the the first time I have observed  this behaviour.     

As ever, any comments/help would be welcome.

Regards BBN
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: Help to interpret line stats
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 08:34:09 PM »

In answer to a question in your previous post, I run Norton Internet Security 2013 pretty much on at its default settings. It does run “idle time scans” but there is no fixed scheduled time for running these – Norton decides when to run.  I have looked at the Norton logs and, as far as I can see, there are no Norton tasks running regularly between 02:00 and 03:00 hours. Also there are no Windows system tasks scheduled at that time and nothing in the Windows system logs jumps out at me.

I believe I have found a workaround that seems to deal with 'other' PC activities causing the data harvesting process to slow down.

Ronski has just started looking into how to automate it for W8, W7 & Vista users. It doesn't seem to affect XP users.
I'm planning to release an update to the programs quite soon, so hopefully it can be incorporated.

It doesn't actually cause any connection issues & if data harvesting is completed within the minute, it doesn't affect the harvested data or the operation of the programs.

Occasionally, the slowdown would cause harvesting to take more than one minute on my system (as opposed to the usual 2 seconds or so), which did cause a very slight issue now & then.

Quote
Having said that, I note from the graphs that the number of US_RSCorr errors dramatically increases at 9:00pm every day (see attached graphs). This is replicated in the previous set of graphs (ie at 9:00 pm on 4/10/13) that I posted. It suggests to me that there is some external event happening which is creating interference? Am I wrong in inferring this from the data? I cannot think of anything electrical in the home that switches on/off at this time of day that might cause this.

That's an interesting observation, especially as it does appear to occur at exactly 21:00 each night.
As to its cause, I don't know what it could be other than something on a timer.
If it's nothing in your house, it might be at a neighbour's house, sending a spike of interference down the mains power cable at VDSL2 US frequencies that is detected at your end.
(Maybe for example central heating switching off - causing some arcing that isn't present when it switches on??????)

The fact that they are RSCorr errors shows that the modem is dealing with them & not needing the same data to be retransmitted.

It doesn't seem to be sufficient to have caused DLM to intervene by applying US Interleaving across the board (so far).


Quote
The graphs make sense as my US speeds seem to be the path that is deteriorating the fastest. I’m currently trying to plot the data from previous speed tests to determine if there is a definite trend in that area. Using the BT retail speedtest website today at 13:07 produced a figure of 5.44 for the US speed which is ridiculous – historically it is normally over 15. This is not the the first time I have observed  this behaviour.     

As there is nothing of note in the connection's data/graphs from around that time, I can only put it down to the router or external network congestion.

If you are using a HomeHub as the router, I read a while ago that some users who experienced similar issues factory reset it a number of times in quick succession which seemed to permanently resolve the issue.


I notice from your prevous 'snapshot' graphs that your power in the U1 band is -18.5dBm, which isn't captured in the version of graphpd.exe that you are using.

It will be included in the updates, but in the meantime you may wish to use the attached graphpd.exe in place of the one you have stored in the Scripts folder.
The Power Y axis now goes down to -36dBm for both DS & US power.


By all means, feel free to zip the modem_stats.log & ERROR.LOG that are stored in the Ongoing_Stats folder & post them as attachments.
I'll take a closer look at the data at my end.

TBH though, I can't see much wrong with your connection at all.
I believe the DS & US speeds look about right for the line length & it does appear to be very, very steady.




It's a shame that unlike ECI DSLAMS, Huawei DSLAMS never report US Hlog, QLN & SNR.
However, one user has provided proof that his band plan tones have recently changed & US data can now actually be seen in his graphs.
This may be BTOR trialling something at his DSLAM or it could be the start of an update for all users.

The previous change to DS tones from 3939 to 3959 wasn't announced at all by BTOR, but users started to see it over a period of a few months.
(see the attached 'snapshot' montage & spot the difference in the graphs (US shown in green) & the revised band plan tones in the pbParams data).

 
 
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