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[waltergmw]

Gentlefolk,

Then I'll begin, just to entertain you whilst awakening from your postprandial nap.

Those privileged to have a VDSL broadband service provided by BT Retail might be interested in the following web-chat.

The link below leads to a PDF copy of the data I sent after the interminable for my Indian correspondent.

http://tinyurl.com/py84ve5

Below is an anonymised version of the entire web-chat with India.
I have added the time passed during the "chat".


One interesting fact emerges that India is able to run diagnostic tests providing the VDSL modem's sync speed.

Kind regards,
Walter

_______________________________________________________________________________________



Time 10:41 on 29Sep2013
You are currently number 12 in the queue. You should be connected to an agent in about 02:04. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 02:28.
You are currently number 10 in the queue. You should be connected to an agent in about 02:38. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 03:35
You are currently number 10 in the queue. You should be connected to an agent in about 01:34. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 03:35.
You are currently number 10 in the queue. You should be connected to an agent in about 00:29. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 03:35.
You are currently number 10 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 03:35.
Time 10:46
You are currently number 9 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 04:24.
You are currently number 8 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 05:17.
You are currently number 8 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 04:57.
Time 10:51
You are currently number 7 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 04:24.
You are currently number 5 in the queue. We apologise for the delay. We will assign you to an agent as soon as one is available. The average amount of time a customer has to wait is 05:01.
Time 10:53
Siddartha: Hello. I'm Siddartha. Thanks for that information, I'll check it and get back to you in a moment.
 Siddartha: Hi.
 Siddartha: Good Morning.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Hello Siddartha, I am Walter W helping my friend “Exasperated Infinity customer” with his VDSL fault.
 Siddartha: Ok..
 File attachment upload has started.
 The file VDSL Data 22-00 28Sep2013 01483nnnnnn.pdf (745.91KB) was received.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Please read the attached PDF file and then pass this to your level 2 help desk to arrange a BT Openreach MORNING appointment
 Siddartha: I got it.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Splendid
Time 10:55
Siddartha: Mr. Walter W , As I am from the Level 1 desk and so I directly cannot pass your Case and I am sorry for it.
 Siddartha: However, If you want then I can arrange a Call back for you from the Level 2 desk and you can speak to them.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Your other colleagues have done so, so please talk to your supervisor to transfer this case to your level 2 help desk
 Siddartha: Let me check.
Exasperated Infinity customer: If necessary, I will accept a call back if it is done quickly on my home number which is 014383xxxxxx
Time 10:58
Siddartha: I understand that but I cannot see any open case.
 Siddartha: The Call back is possible after couple of Hours.
Exasperated Infinity customer: I am asking you to open this case with the fault data I have provided you with.
Time 11:01
Siddartha: I can run some checks and then I can raise the case to Level 2 and they will call you after 24 and within 48 hours and then if it is necessary then they can appoint engineer.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Please run whatever tests that you wish and where you will see the line is capped with a download sync speed of 40 Mbps
Exasperated Infinity customer: A wait of that duration is quite unjustified and is unacceptable
Siddartha: I understand that but thats the policy which I have to follow otherwise they will reject the case.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Once you have completed your tests I shall be very grateful if you will talk to your level 2 colleagues immediately.
 Siddartha: Ok.
 Siddartha: Please assist me with the test but I cannot talk to them immediately.
 Siddartha: they will not accept my call.
Exasperated Infinity customer: I have talked directly to level 2 help desk before so I would like you to bend the rules upon this occasion
Exasperated Infinity customer: Please carry on with your tests
Time 11:07
Siddartha: Is it possible to establish a wired connection with the home hub and with your computer via yellow ended ethernet  cable ?
Exasperated Infinity customer: We have done precisely that.
Exasperated Infinity customer: The ECI modem is connected directly to the SSFP with the HH3 connected also to the modem.
 Siddartha: Thanks
Exasperated Infinity customer: We have an ethernet cable from the HH3 to our laptop and have performed speed tests.
 Time 11:11
 Siddartha: While performing the test, I came to see that your speed at the point of sale was 55800 and you are getting a speed more then 40 meg.
Exasperated Infinity customer: I think you are talking about the sync speed and not throughput speed
 Siddartha: Yes.
 Siddartha: Mr. Walter, I suspect there is a fault in the network and I shall be raising this with my Network Fault Specialist Team. The team will call you within the next 48hrs, but this may be sooner depending on the nature of the fault.  During this time please leave all equipment connected and powered on.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Thanks very much. Please try to get your level 2 help desk to call me soonest on 01483xxxxxx
 Siddartha: I will try my level best but I cannot promise. I can try to bend the rules for the customers but when the involvement comes of another desk then you can understand that Mr. W that I am not sure about.
Exasperated Infinity customer: O.k.
 Siddartha: The Fault Reference Number is VOL012-82292711xxx.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Excellent
Time: 11:19
 Siddartha: Thanks
 Siddartha: Bye Bye
Exasperated Infinity customer: bye bye
 Siddartha: Bye
 You have disconnected.
Time 11:22
TOTAL time on line 41 minutes

[Black Sheep]

In fairness, the actual 'chat' only lasted around 30mins, and your 'exasperated friend' appears to have wasted a chunk of this time trying to get the call-centre advisor to 'bend the rules' ??
So, all in all, after probably nearer 20mins of, 'To the point' conversation and testing, they have accepted that there is an issue with your friends line and have passed it to the relevant department. I would say that's not tooooo bad a time ??. 

I thought India had always been able to run synch tests ?? I would have thought that was a 'given', seeing as they are the VDSL helpdesk ?? Otherwise, it would seem pointless entering into debate with them.

The other interesting, albeit annoying, fact to come from this, is that the call-centres work to a script. I would imagine this is a common-sense approach as there are plenty of folk who profess to be experts, or are adamant that it's BT's fault their compoooter is running slow. Whereas in fact, the script process may well resolve the issue without the need for an engineering visit, because 'Mr Expert EU' has got their lead plugged in wrongly. The exasperation creeps in when you have somebody like yourself, Walter, who is fully conversant in the technologies but still has to go through the same old guff !!
There is no 'One glove fits all' solution, therefore the script reading is the next best thing. Far from perfect, but how could it be bettered ?? Genuine question, as it's one they ask us in relentless surveys !!
Bear in mind though, you have to come up with a solution that fits the entire demo-graph range, from old to young, fit to infirm, business to residential, one socket installations to multi-socket installations, ............ the list goes on.

Regards.

[NewtronStar]

Exasperated Infinity customer: Hello Siddartha, I am Walter W helping my friend “Exasperated Infinity customer” with his VDSL fault.
 Siddartha: Ok..
 File attachment upload has started.
 The file VDSL Data 22-00 28Sep2013 01483nnnnnn.pdf (745.91KB) was received.
Exasperated Infinity customer: Please read the attached PDF file and then pass this to your level 2 help desk to arrange a BT Openreach MORNING appointment
 Siddartha: I got it.

I would interested in the email address you were able to send the PDF file in case i need it in the future 

[ryant704]

They've always been able to run tests, when I had problems I wouldn't even bother with the level one support. I would just ask if there super visor was available then I would be escalated straight to level 2 and get a call within the next 4 hours normally.

[waltergmw]

@ BS,

The fundamental problem that BT Retail insist on is a so called live chat at all times **   and no means of adding comments or further happenings during the exercise. The resultant "fault progress" page on line is absolutely useless.

I find the Plusnet approach far more satisfactory where you can "ask a question" as often as you want, including uploading as many files as you like (provided the file name doesn't contain spaces !). The end user then gets an e-mail when the question has been responded to.  However, we must all accept that all ADSL or VDSL broadband problems involve a reasonably complex set of situations amply exaggerated by human beings making mistakes !

Zen Internet have a very good fault reporting system once you have spoken to a real technician in Rotherham England who understands the situation. They too converse and ask the relevant questions (then fully recorded in the fault report) but common sense is used as it becomes immediately obvious to the Zen representative whether (s)he is talking to someone familiar with the technology or a bewildered newcomer. With Zen you can always send an e-mail to support@zen.co.uk provided you realise you MUST include at least the phone number or user name in the e-mail subject line.


** Yesterday helping somebody else with an ADSL performance issue, I spent 2 hrs & 10 minutes on a single "Live chat" followed by a telephone call just to get an appointment booked. The major difference in that case was that India were unable to observe the fault and took significant and continuing badgering before I was allowed accept a possible charge of around £130 for a site visit.

@ NS,

I'm sorry to say the only time you are allowed to upload a file is after

Siddartha: Hello. I'm Siddartha.

has been displayed in the chat window. At that time a button appears in the chat window so you can search for a file and send it, just as you do here for Kitz.
It is utterly impossibly to send an e-mail to an individual unless they are being co-operative and give you their address.
There are serious limitations as Indian agents cannot necessarily see the same uploaded file and that they insist on having totally separate help desks / departments when dealing with phone faults and broadband faults so they frequently play ping-pong at your expense and frustration.

[waltergmw]

@ Ryant,

I knew they had some testing capability but it is still unclear what thay can do and what they can observe.
I too try to get to level 2 every time, but you are depriving level 1 from being able to think they are assisting you first !

Kind regards,
Walter

[ryant704]

I know they have access to modem stats, the same as which DSLStats shows if not more. All I know about the other test is that it doesn't test as much as a JDSU test (PTO test?, idk can't remember) that's all I was told from the ELC department.

[Black Sheep]

Thanks for your input, Walter. I do like the sound of Plusnet's fault-reporting scenario, and Zen's 'Speaking to a proper technician' is great. But the reality is, their customer market-share fails in comparison to BT Retails. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying you need to IN A BUSINESS SENSE, come up with a plan that fits all !!

We'd all like to chat informally with an advisor, after having the call answered within 15 seconds, and go into great detail about how much 'we' know about broadband, and that 'your' second cousins ex-husband is an engineer, but business reality is that this isn't going to happen ...... at this moment in time. If your EU base is 20K customers, then you could probably afford to allow your CC Advisors 3hrs to do in-depth 1-1 conversations, that ultimately reveal the EU has knocked his wireless connection button off whilst cleaning it, hence his inability to access the 'Net'. But when you have millions of subscribers, there has to be something in place that encapsulates ALL enquiries.

[NewtronStar]

@ NS,

I'm sorry to say the only time you are allowed to upload a file is after

Siddartha: Hello. I'm Siddartha.

has been displayed in the chat window. At that time a button appears in the chat window so you can search for a file and send it, just as you do here for Kitz.
It is utterly impossibly to send an e-mail to an individual unless they are being co-operative and give you their address.
There are serious limitations as Indian agents cannot necessarily see the same uploaded file and that they insist on having totally separate help desks / departments when dealing with phone faults and broadband faults so they frequently play ping-pong at your expense and frustration.

No worrys WG I understand, I have only had to use BT support once in the last 14 months via phone and it took under a minute for them to tell me the problem was at the BT server side and would be fixed after 3am and it was, I have not used the online chat as yet is this the correct link
https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact/#h=eyJzdGVwMCI6ImNvbnRhY3RJdGVtTGluazU2MjciLCJzdGVwSWR4IjoxLCJzdGVwMSI6ImNvbnRhY3RJdGVtTGluazU2MjcsNTY1OCJ9

[waltergmw]

Hi NS,

That link is correct at present but it is quite likely to change.

I usually start just by typing bt.com/help

and then go to the small print at the bottom saying Contact BT

https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact
From there select technical help followed by broadband or Infinity

Perhaps we should just mention this is only for those who have a BT retail broadband service.
People using other ISPs MUST go direct to them first where they my find a more satisfactory process BUT provided the cheapest ISPs are also avoided !

@ BS I do understand your viewpoint but a careful examination of the practices involved could, IMHO, produce far more efficient methods both for the supplier and the EU. Why for instance is a BT client forced to wait for up to 48 hours before even booking an appointment and without apparent activity whereas a Zen client, once I possible problem is identified, is immediately launched into the process via their Wholesale to Openreach contact mechanism ? Your human error point is also valid, but how much better to have access without waiting upwards to 45 minutes before the script is initiated, whereas familiar UK staff are usually far more able to sense the words in conversation. (This time I had to explain that a cherry picker was a lift platform often used for picking fruit !). I am also aware that unsatisfactory experiences are likely to cause "churn".

I did hear a rumour that the Asian operation was to be transferred back to the UK but that seems to have gone cold.
I should also mention that those with a BT business product are directed to a far more satisfactory UK call centre possibly in Dundee.

[Chrysalis]

I have worked for a major isp tech support before and I also have a good friend who works for BT tech support.

Both our experiences have been approx 3/4 of callers are not dumb idiots who need hand holding how to connect a lan cable.  My friend has been disciplined for not following scripts but still works there.

But more to the point, its very easy at the start of a call to determine the competance level of the caller.  I think a rigid script following is not the best thing.  But thankfully when I spoke to india tech support at BT they dont seem as clueless as other isp's they werent so bad.  Asking someone who knows what they talking about to reboot their pc is only going to anger them.