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Author Topic: Amended Speed Estimates  (Read 4890 times)

Bald_Eagle1

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Amended Speed Estimates
« on: May 28, 2013, 09:00:19 PM »

There is a forum thread here that seems to suggest that BT has been recently amending (lowering) FTTC speed estimates:-

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4241533-wholesale-line-speed-reduction.html

FWIW, my recent reduced speed issues of > 25% below estimated speed now seem to have been been 'fixed' --------- by lowering my speed estimates from the 30Mbps/5.7Mbps that I was able to more or less achieve in December 2012 to:-

WBC FTTC Up to 23.3 Up to 5.4

My connection now achieves only 20.7 Mbps DS & 4.8 Mbps US.

Has anyone else's speed estimates been recently revised?

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Stop It

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 09:22:29 PM »

This post had me slightly worried, as I'm waiting for my activation of Sky Fibre, and while I'm only on the 40/10 tier, my estimate was 48mb so if it went down it may have meant I couldn't top out the connection.

Thankfully, no change here at all. Still 48mb, as it has estimated for nearly a year. (Fibre only activated on my cab a couple of months ago). Next Tuesday can't come soon enough, heh.
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ryant704

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 10:36:07 PM »

Sky don't get their estimates from BT Wholesale, my BT Wholesale estimate is 26.3 DS and 5.6 US but on sky the estimate is 25.6DS and 5.6 US, the sky estimate is closer to my current speed.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 04:44:12 AM by ryant704 »
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ColinS

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2013, 12:30:41 AM »

There is a forum thread here that seems to suggest that BT has been recently amending (lowering) FTTC speed estimates:-

Has anyone else's speed estimates been recently revised?
Hi BE

Yep!  Just checked and whereas at the time of my move to Plusnet they captured it as 69/20 (even though 80/20 was achieved)
it now says
WBC FTTC Up to 61.9 Up to 20

[EDIT] Capturing the original from Plusnet, just in case it too 'changes':
Phone exchange:
WESTERN
Estimated line speed:
69Mb (Accurate to within +/- 1Mbit) - Checked on 2013-03-11 09:48:58
Current line speed:
64.8 Mb


This is a reduction to 90% of its previous DS level, whereas your new estimate is only 80% of yours.

I think this is all a bit underhand. >:( While there are no guarantees, to reduce everyone's estimates is in effect reducing our ability to complain about significant falls in sync rates. e.g. the 25% threshold for your line would have been 22.5Mb/s but is now presumably 17.48Mb/s, which is getting perilously close to the minimum 15Mb/s that they do 'guarantee'.  So what happens if they reduce it again?  And why haven't they announced and/or explained the need for such a change and what factors are affecting the new estimates?
As you know I have been very suspicious that they also rolled out new profiles just prior to the PCP-only announcement.  Coincidence?  I don't think so.  :no: This is a deliberate move by someone.

Thanks for the heads-up.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 03:05:15 PM by ColinS »
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waltergmw

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2013, 01:25:17 AM »

@ Colin,

BT have long used to practice of changing the speed estimate for those who make a justifiable complaint regarding the VDSL speed obtained.

E.g. an extreme example where the line length to the FTTC is over 2 Km had an estimate of 19 Mbps which had been reduced to "Up to 2.3 Mbps" and has now been reduced to "Up to 1 Mbps".
That actual sync speed started at 1.88 Mbps but that has now dropped to 0.74 Mbps and BT will not investigate the partial fault.
Meanwhile another ADSL line to the same property still remains with a VDSL estimate at 19 Mbps.

I think BS suggested that the estimates are not based upon the total line length from the property to the FTTC but only from a DP to the FTTC.
Whilst this might be acceptable for an urban area where most lines are likely to be within say 1 km of the FTTC, the same cannot be said for rural lines.

Kind regards,
Walter

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ColinS

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2013, 09:48:48 AM »

BT have long used to practice of changing the speed estimate for those who make a justifiable complaint regarding the VDSL speed obtained.
I can't say I'm surprised to hear that Walter, although the difference here is that BT appear to be doing this 'wholesale' and not just for those who have (yet) to make a justifiable complaint. :( By doing so, deliberately or otherwise, BT are making it more difficult, as you imply, for anybody who's estimate has been reduced to make a complaint.

Quote
E.g. an extreme example where the line length to the FTTC is over 2 Km had an estimate of 19 Mbps which had been reduced to "Up to 2.3 Mbps" and has now been reduced to "Up to 1 Mbps".
That actual sync speed started at 1.88 Mbps but that has now dropped to 0.74 Mbps and BT will not investigate the partial fault.
Meanwhile another ADSL line to the same property still remains with a VDSL estimate at 19 Mbps.
Yes. So with the original actual sync it would fail the >25% reduction for >14days threshold, but no longer since they have reduced the estimate. It goes without saying though that IMO, and no doubt in yours and many others, that BT should not be allowed to use these aribitrary estimates, and should be compelled to examine the records from WHOOSH instead.  Again, IMO, those records should be available to the EU.  After all, they are a record of the service received.  An estimate may be OK to manage expectations prior to installation, but post-installation, reality should prevail.  Of course I understand why it is not in their interests to do so, but that is not the point, and perhaps this is a matter for Offcom, although I wouldn't hold out much hope. :no:

Quote
I think BS suggested that the estimates are not based upon the total line length from the property to the FTTC but only from a DP to the FTTC.
Whilst this might be acceptable for an urban area where most lines are likely to be within say 1 km of the FTTC, the same cannot be said for rural lines.
Well, I certainly understand the difference in the overall length of the average D-side will make, but I'm not sure if you think this then affects the estimate negatively?
Some examples,
1) Overall D-side is 1.2Km, DP is 0.2 Km from the property, estimate is based on 1km, so over-estimates a little
2) Overall D-side is 1.2Km, DP is 1Km from the property, estimate is based on 0.2Km, so over-estimates a lot
3) Overall D-side is 150m, DP is 10m from the property, estimate is based on 140m, so overestimates it a bit.
Perhaps you are pointing out that all of these are over-estimates, but (2) will set unrealistic expectations?
In my experience though, and this will come as no suprise to anyone, all of these estimates (being exactly that) are generally conservative.  I've seen BS state here on Kitz (and I would agree with him) that anybody with a PCP-premises length of <250m ought to get 80/20 easily, and yet my estimate, as reported above has been reduced from the already conservative 69Mb/s to 61.3Mb/s, while it continues to max out the 67Mb/s profile max, with an attainable of 91.5Mb/s.

So, have the estimates been reduced because BT think that their DPs are now further away from the PCP than they were previously?  :lol: :no:  I think we all know the real reason.  ;) :)

[Edit] If everyone's estimate had been reduced by, say 7.5Mb/s, I might have been suspicious that this was to make allowance for a 7.5Mb/s multicast IPTV stream that may have to come over the same D-side, thereby reducing the amount available to GEA-Data.  See http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12501.0.html.
But that would be misleading. ;)

 :drink:
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 10:11:44 AM by ColinS »
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ryant704

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 11:21:19 AM »

My estimate hasn't moved and had Multicast available for a few months now. :)
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ColinS

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 01:21:10 PM »

My estimate hasn't moved and had Multicast available for a few months now. :)
Lucky(?) old you!  OK, but the multicast stream must come out of your sync rate somewhere, so the GEA-Data throughput must fall when that happens?  Have you measured that?

BTW I already knew that it wasn't bandwidth reservation in the estimate, as some people's have actually gone up, and not everybody's have changed at all (like yours)!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 06:17:10 PM by ColinS »
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ryant704

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 05:22:39 PM »

I don't have Multicast active on my line, but I do believe it's the same as BT Vision/Youview.
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ColinS

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2013, 09:27:23 AM »

After the flurry of problems with my line, PlusNet have decided to reset my profile, so now it's:

Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
78 Mb

[Edit] Capturing (again) BTOR's revised (downwards) estimate
WBC FTTC Up to 61.9 Up to 20

by which token their fault threshold speed would be 46.425Mb/s DS or almost half the current actual sync!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 03:28:59 PM by ColinS »
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Ixel

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 10:07:03 AM »

After the flurry of problems with my line, PlusNet have decided to reset my profile, so now it's:

Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
78 Mb

By reset your profile, I don't suppose you're talking about DLM? Or just your IP profile in general?
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ColinS

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Re: Amended Speed Estimates
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 01:24:46 PM »

By reset your profile, I don't suppose you're talking about DLM? Or just your IP profile in general?

No, the latter. :( Here's what they said
Quote
I've adjusted your profile to match your sync speed so your should see an improvement to your speed when you next check.

Well, if I get more than 80000 DS I'll let everybody know!  ::)

While I was writing this they've come back to tell me
Quote
Your DLM profile is set at '40M-80M Downstream, Interleaving Low - 10M-20M Upstream, Interleaving Off'

I've changed your profile on our system to 78Mb/s. You're currently syncing at 80Mb/s

Wow, an interleaving depth of 1438 is LOW is it?  Perhaps that's what they mean by reset - interleaving will be set to low at the next sync?  We'll see....  If it is it might suggest they DO have some control over the profiles applied. :-X

I think what has happened is that AFAICS they seem either not to have received or actioned ANY of the delta reports on my line since Day 1.  ???  When I last looked last night it was exactly the same as posted above at #3.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 03:23:27 PM by ColinS »
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