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Author Topic: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems  (Read 32731 times)

Splash

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My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« on: April 28, 2013, 06:29:18 PM »

I've finally joined the Forum after years of visiting the site, firstly I'd just like to thank asbokid and everyone else who was involved with the modem hacking/testing. Now, what I'm actually here for. I decided to buy an ECI 'B-FOCus V-2FUb/r  Rev B' when I saw that I was connected to ECI hardware, what I found was with the ECI modem there was 1-2ms less latency, could this be because of a less errors?

When I first got FTTC  (10 months ago) the max attainable rate was around 136000 downstream and 36000 upstream, which is now down to around 90000 and 30000 (from memory). Would bald_eagle be interested in seeing some graphs and stats from the HG612 (I haven't done anything to the ECI modem)?

Here's a speed test if you wondering what kind of throughout I get - doubt you are but anyway:
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 06:42:11 PM »


When I first got FTTC  (10 months ago) the max attainable rate was around 136000 downstream and 36000 upstream, which is now down to around 90000 and 30000 (from memory). Would bald_eagle be interested in seeing some graphs and stats from the HG612 (I haven't done anything to the ECI modem)?


Yes, I would indeed be interested, especially if you have any from when attainable rates were higher to compare against what they have been more recently.

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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 06:55:19 PM »

Well I did, but sadly I formatted my computer and lost them all, I'll set the modem up, get the software, and get some information produced. I do have this though from about 2 or 3 months ago when my line was fixed (before and after), it's not much but that's all I have right now.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 07:01:52 PM »

What needed fixing & how easy/difficult was it to get it fixed?

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asbokid

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 07:05:00 PM »

Hi Splash,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your kind words!

As you've found, it is very difficult to say categorically which is the better modem!   Kitz mentioned earlier that it really depends on the specific line conditions.  I reckon those parameters are actually more important than matching chipset for chipset in the CPE and in the DSLAM linecard.

The Huawei excels in certain line conditions, whereas the ECI has its own.    Initially, it looked like loop length was the simple answer, with the ECI outperforming the Huawei on the longest lines. But it's possible to engineer a very long line (>1km) albeit in test conditions, where the Huawei clearly performs better.   So factors such as noise have their own impact.

Up to a certain length of line (few hundreds of metres) both the ECI and the Huawei perform much the same from the end-user's perspective. This is because the Profile 17a (100/60) and subsequently the BRAS profile cause the device to max out (at 80/20 or whatever has been set by the Communications Provider).  This masks any underlying superiority in the modems.

Like Bald Eagle, I and others would always be interested to see the line stats you've gathered!

cheers, a
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 07:09:12 PM by asbokid »
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asbokid

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 07:14:09 PM »

When I first got FTTC  (10 months ago) the max attainable rate was around 136000 downstream and 36000 upstream, which is now down to around 90000 and 30000 (from memory).

An excellent speed but still quite a dramatic drop.  Presumably accounted for by crosstalk eating into your sync speed, as more households sign up for VDSL2 from your cabinet.    It also provides a rationale for clobbering the maximum actual rate to 80/20, as Openreach has done via the BRAS profile.   In effect, that profile has introduced a margin to play with.  The high syncing end-users can afford to lose that margin before the degradation becomes evident in their actual surfing experience.


cheers, a
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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 07:28:16 PM »

Yes, I would indeed be interested, especially if you have any from when attainable rates were higher to compare against what they have been more recently.

I called Sky complaining of a speed fault after it had got to the point of the upload hitting 10000. I was happy when the upload went down to around 15000 but getting under 10Mb/s just bugged me (when I had seen the max attainable speeds on install). I basically had to argue with the Sky Fibre Team lady, at one point she said it must be the router, which it obviously can't be (when I can see my sync, shh), she did three line tests, the first and third had shown that the line was fine but the second had shown a fault, it ended in me saying I'll pay for the engineer and then she  put me on hold and spoke with her manager (I think), once she came back she said are you available tomorrow, I was, and he came the next day, at about 12 I think. I never got billed for it, rightly so as the fault wasn't past the Demarcation Point.

An Openreach engineer was here for about two hours, he looked at the line and eventually came to the conclusion that a 'lift and shift' was required, so he contacted someone to do the 'lift and shift' (who came from the exchange, I think). The DSL light was off for at least half an hour. The DSL light eventually game back on and he came back a few minutes later, ran some tests, I think the line length said something like 263 metres on his JDSU (the Openreach engineer who originally installed the faceplate didn't have a JDSU).

I'd also like to mention I may of had around 46000 max upload on day 1, not 36000.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 07:32:46 PM by Splash »
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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 07:36:23 PM »

An excellent speed but still quite a dramatic drop.  Presumably accounted for by crosstalk eating into your sync speed, as more households sign up for VDSL2 from your cabinet.    It also provides a rationale for clobbering the maximum actual rate to 80/20, as Openreach has done via the BRAS profile.   In effect, that profile has introduced a margin to play with.  The high syncing end-users can afford to lose that margin before the degradation becomes evident in their actual surfing experience.


cheers, a

Hmm, interesting, are you saying that if I could get a 100Mb/s package right now then the attainable speed would be higher so I would actually get the 100Mb/s?
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asbokid

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 07:36:49 PM »

It was wise of you taking note of the sync speeds at the time of installation.  Many people have valid arguments of a developing line fault, but without physical evidence to prove that - such as screenshots or graphs, it can get difficult.

EDIT: sure.. there are two forms of capping.  Profile 17a itself has a physical cap of 100Mbps downstream in the *actual net data rate* and then there's an IP profile or BRAS profile cap, of 80Mbps (or 40Mbps for those end-users who choose that).

Your line has a maximum attainable data rate (which is itself something of a theoretical figure being based on a formula) that is in excess of 80Mbps..

If the BRAS profile was lifted (not likely) then you would get a downstream actual net data rate  (ACTNDR) in excess of 80Mbps but also somewhere less than 100Mbps, the Profile 17a cap.

cheers, a
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 07:40:58 PM by asbokid »
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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2013, 07:42:00 PM »

It was wise of you taking note of the sync speeds at the time of installation.  Many people have valid arguments of a developing line fault, but without physical evidence to prove that - such as screenshots or graphs, it can get difficult.

cheers, a
I lost the original stats like I said, but at least I have some high speed (thanks Dropbox) ones just in case.
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Black Sheep

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2013, 07:48:47 PM »

Yes, I would indeed be interested, especially if you have any from when attainable rates were higher to compare against what they have been more recently.

I called Sky complaining of a speed fault after it had got to the point of the upload hitting 10000. I was happy when the upload went down to around 15000 but getting under 10Mb/s just bugged me (when I had seen the max attainable speeds on install). I basically had to argue with the Sky Fibre Team lady, at one point she said it must be the router, which it obviously can't be (when I can see my sync, shh), she did three line tests, the first and third had shown that the line was fine but the second had shown a fault, it ended in me saying I'll pay for the engineer and then she  put me on hold and spoke with her manager (I think), once she came back she said are you available tomorrow, I was, and he came the next day, at about 12 I think. I never got billed for it, rightly so as the fault wasn't past the Demarcation Point.

An Openreach engineer was here for about two hours, he looked at the line and eventually came to the conclusion that a 'lift and shift' was required, so he contacted someone to do the 'lift and shift' (who came from the exchange, I think). The DSL light was off for at least half an hour. The DSL light eventually game back on and he came back a few minutes later, ran some tests, I think the line length said something like 263 metres on his JDSU (the Openreach engineer who originally installed the faceplate didn't have a JDSU).

I'd also like to mention I may of had around 46000 max upload on day 1, not 36000.

Just for information purposes. A) A 'Lift & Shift' does not require anybody to "Come from the Exchange", it will be done there and then by the same engineer who visits the premises. Initially, when FTTC first came to market, it could take up to 3hrs to get a new 'Port' at the Cabinet. It now takes approx 30-45mins to achieve.
B) A lot of FTTC  'Lift & Shifts', have been found to have been not necessary. Studies have shown that engineers will connect their HHT (Testers) at the EU's premises and see a synch speed of lets say 50Meg, they would then visit the Cabinet and see the same 50Meg speeds. They were then requesting a 'Lift & Shift' take place.

This shouldn't happen, as unlike ADSL, where the closer to the cabinet/Exchange you test for speeds, the higher the said speed will be. VDSL's DLM speed remains static wherever you test in the network from Cabinet to Premises.

Comms have been put out to those who need to know and this should remove the many 'L&S' being submitted.

Thought it worth pointing out as Splash may be under the impression his 'fault' was cured. In the interests of balance, his circuit could well indeed have had a faulty port, and a 'L&S' was necessary ??
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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2013, 08:18:32 PM »

The stats from when I changed the modem to the HG612 show a much low sync speed which has never happened before. I turned the modem back off and on again and it seems to have gone back up. I had to upload the file to Dropbox because the size was too large for an attachment on here.

Here is the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lia5lvcrqbi1ua/Modem%20Stats.zip

I will remove the public link on Dropbox in a few days, so make sure you save it.
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Splash

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2013, 08:23:42 PM »

Just for information purposes. A) A 'Lift & Shift' does not require anybody to "Come from the Exchange", it will be done there and then by the same engineer who visits the premises. Initially, when FTTC first came to market, it could take up to 3hrs to get a new 'Port' at the Cabinet. It now takes approx 30-45mins to achieve.
B) A lot of FTTC  'Lift & Shifts', have been found to have been not necessary. Studies have shown that engineers will connect their HHT (Testers) at the EU's premises and see a synch speed of lets say 50Meg, they would then visit the Cabinet and see the same 50Meg speeds. They were then requesting a 'Lift & Shift' take place.

This shouldn't happen, as unlike ADSL, where the closer to the cabinet/Exchange you test for speeds, the higher the said speed will be. VDSL's DLM speed remains static wherever you test in the network from Cabinet to Premises.

Comms have been put out to those who need to know and this should remove the many 'L&S' being submitted.

Thought it worth pointing out as Splash may be under the impression his 'fault' was cured. In the interests of balance, his circuit could well indeed have had a faulty port, and a 'L&S' was necessary ??

Oh, OK, yes he mentioned a 'lift and shift' was done, but he also mentioned that there was a faulty port and that it was then marked as faulty.

I haven't been educated in this area of Networking so everything I know I have picked up off the internet, thanks for your information.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 10:29:25 PM »


I had to upload the file to Dropbox because the size was too large for an attachment on here.



The newer program versions produce a smaller file size that can be uploaded here.

The program versions including scheduled graphing & a GUI for starting/stopping logging & changing other settings can be downloaded from here:-

http://www.freewarefiles.com/HG612-Modem-Stats_program_84567.html


EDIT:

As mentioned by asbokid, looking at your QLN graphs, it does indeed appear that crosstalk could well be the reason for lowered attainable rates.
QLN of around -140 dBm/Hz is considered 'quiet', so your QLN of around -110 to -120 looks fairly 'noisy' - usually a symptom of crosstalk.
It's a shame you don't have any data from when attainable rates were so much higher for comparison purposes.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 10:39:04 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: My experience with the Huawei and ECI Modems
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 10:52:09 PM »


This shouldn't happen, as unlike ADSL, where the closer to the cabinet/Exchange you test for speeds, the higher the said speed will be. VDSL's DLM speed remains static wherever you test in the network from Cabinet to Premises.

Comms have been put out to those who need to know and this should remove the many 'L&S' being submitted.


That's really interesting.
Until you mentioned that, I was under the impression that due to attenuation & 'interference' over distance, speeds would be lower at the EU's than at the cabinet.

I took that to be the explanation as to why my connection could only ever achieve 35Mb or so sync speed, despite being temporarily on a wide open profile (40Mb at the cabinet) when DLM had been reset.

As you know, the 35Mb wasn't sustainable & Interleaving etc. lowered it to around 30 Mb & since then it appears that crosstalk has quite recently lowered it to below 24 Mb.

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