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Author Topic: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion  (Read 7532 times)

Ixel

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ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« on: April 06, 2013, 09:37:49 PM »

Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the appropriate section to post this in, but I figured that some people might be curious at how the ECI /r modem performs and my conclusion as to the differences between the /i and Huawei HG612.



On the HG612 I achieved a megabit less on the downstream, upstream marginally less. On the ECI /i modem I achieved the same downstream as the HG612 virtually, but a horrid upstream of 13 megabits~. The street cabinet hardware is ECI.

Other note to those who might be a bit confused with the downstream, a while back I managed to get DLM to stop tampering with my line, leaving me unfortunately with the speed band of a maximum of 60 megabits, but fortunately no interleaving whatsoever (as I prefer the lowest ping possible). So, that's why my downstream is capped at 60 megabits~.
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les-70

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 08:12:57 AM »

  Thanks for the post -- interesting but hard to judge without stats for the other modems and results obtained over a number of resyncs, on different days and at a time with a fairly fixed QLN. The ratio of downstream to upstream looks about normal with the HG612 so I wonder if the /I was faulty. I have not noticed other /I users mentioning this marked reduction in upsteam.

  Being capped can, as you say, have advantages. Please could you say how you managed to get capped at 60mb/s. Did your isp do this for you and if so who? 
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Ixel

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 09:26:43 AM »

  Thanks for the post -- interesting but hard to judge without stats for the other modems and results obtained over a number of resyncs, on different days and at a time with a fairly fixed QLN. The ratio of downstream to upstream looks about normal with the HG612 so I wonder if the /I was faulty. I have not noticed other /I users mentioning this marked reduction in upsteam.

  Being capped can, as you say, have advantages. Please could you say how you managed to get capped at 60mb/s. Did your isp do this for you and if so who?

Being capped was a pure experimentation, and I wouldn't recommend others trying it unless they have a healthy wallet, are just interested in experimenting, or are able to borrow a Fritz!Box 7390. What happened was a long while back I was put on interleaving, with the Fritz!Box 7390 there are controls to change target offset SNRM for downstream, or to cap the downstream or upstream sync itself. My goal was to try and make my line as stable as possible, therefore I thought (at the time) an increased SNR would help, so I eventually capped my speed to nearly 40 megabits down (gradually in stages though, as there's a minimum sync rate that is set at cabinet). Eventually after being on around 40 megabits for what I recall nearly two weeks, DLM one morning suddenly turned off all interleaving and ever since no matter how many times I've resynced I've been stuck on a minimum rate of 40 megabits and a maximum rate of 60 megabits on the downstream. So, my conclusion from my own personal experience is that if your connection is on the lowest minimum rate band (which I make to be half of the package's speed, e.g. 80 megabits in my case) for a couple of weeks then DLM will end up like mine. However, this is just a personal conclusion and so I would never encourage anyone to try this for themselves.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 09:29:19 AM by Ixel »
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waltergmw

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 09:52:55 AM »

@ Ixel,

Also note that if DLM has applied a fixed cap for any reason (often due to a substandard installation), the only way to get it removed is to make sufficient fuss to get an Openreach site vist.

During that vist the EU should request a DLM reset which is sometimes done, but it does depend upon the understanding and enthusiasm of everyone involved.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Ixel

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 01:27:58 PM »

@ Ixel,

Also note that if DLM has applied a fixed cap for any reason (often due to a substandard installation), the only way to get it removed is to make sufficient fuss to get an Openreach site vist.

During that vist the EU should request a DLM reset which is sometimes done, but it does depend upon the understanding and enthusiasm of everyone involved.

Kind regards,
Walter

Yes, I know from experience that was the case. As far as BT are concerned my line is syncing just above the estimated speed (around 59 megabits estimated), so getting a DLM reset is very likely next to impossible even if I wanted one. I'm greatful though that a reset wasn't done, as it could've meant getting some interleaving back on my line again.
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waltergmw

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 04:04:27 PM »

@ Ixel,

Sadly I too know of a VDSL service which screams of a bridge tap condition proven to be entirely upstream of the drop wire. We've just had to give up on this one until something else can demand a VDSL site visit in a few months / years !

Kind regards,
Walter

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Black Sheep

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 09:06:42 PM »

Hi Walt

Purely out of curiosity my friend, how was the perceived 'bridged tap' confirmed on the VDSL circuit you mention ?? I have to say, 'taps' like these are rarer than hens teeth, especially on the D-side network from PCP to DP ?? These days, the most common location for 'taps' is at the EU's premises in the first instance, and secondly ..... in the Exchange.

You will have to take my word on this, but if there is a 'bridged tap', believe me 100% it will show up on the WHOOSH GEA diagnostic tool, not only on the initial test results screen, but also on the RRT (Historical) data screen. Believe me again, when I say that the ISP's are relentless in churning out these jobs until the issue is resolved. Backing them up are the NGA helpdesk, who are very precise with their testing.

If a fault has had (I think) 3 previous engineering visits, then we have to liaise with the DCoE (Diagnostic Centre of Excellence), who are like Asbo, Bald Eagle, B*Cat and all the other 'router stat geeks' (said in a loving manner guys  ;D), all rolled into one. Their tests (current and historic) are on another level altogether. We can not 'complete' this type of task until they are satisfied with what they 'see'.

Just wanted to balance the complete myth that nobody cares. :)   
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burakkucat

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2013, 09:20:01 PM »

Not attempting to answer for Walter but I think the item of abandoned plant (image below) is one of the annoyances in Ewhurstshire . . .
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Black Sheep

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 09:22:55 PM »

That's more cosmetic annoyance though, B*Cat.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 09:41:57 PM »


You will have to take my word on this, but if there is a 'bridged tap', believe me 100% it will show up on the WHOOSH GEA diagnostic tool, not only on the initial test results screen, but also on the RRT (Historical) data screen. Believe me again, when I say that the ISP's are relentless in churning out these jobs until the issue is resolved. Backing them up are the NGA helpdesk, who are very precise with their testing.


You may/may not recall one engineer's visit to the Eagle's Nest where only the use of a 'Hawk' TDR tester determined 'something' at or near the cabinet. All previous tests (whatever they had been) had returned LTOK.
That turned out to be something double-jumpered inside the cabinet that the engineer described as "absolute stupidty" or words to that effect.
He may have mentioned bridged tap, but I'm not 100% sure.

 
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waltergmw

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2013, 11:30:07 PM »

@ BS,

The picture BKK has posted is, I believe, rather more than a cosmetic mess as the derelict device has been left connected in the adjacent joint pit despite repeated reminders of its existence; yet all other arrestors I'm aware of locally (Mainly ground based with asbestos compound sleeved mini-pillars) have been completely disconnected.

Almost certainly it will have some effect on downstream services closest to it.

I do not doubt that there are some exceedingly complex testing facilities available but equally well an EU has great difficulty proving a fault condition which is degrading a service quite a bit, but remaining within the defined allowable threshold. Our "VDSL star performer" is a line of over 2 km in length as measured officially with a JDSU which had maintained a speed of 1.86 Mbps (Yes it is below the minimum threshold of 2 Mbps) for three months but has now dropped to 0.9 Mbps. BT won't take any notice of the past performance and we expect will "False green" the line in all probability if we kick up a stink.

Kind regards,
Walter
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Black Sheep

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 07:34:42 AM »


You will have to take my word on this, but if there is a 'bridged tap', believe me 100% it will show up on the WHOOSH GEA diagnostic tool, not only on the initial test results screen, but also on the RRT (Historical) data screen. Believe me again, when I say that the ISP's are relentless in churning out these jobs until the issue is resolved. Backing them up are the NGA helpdesk, who are very precise with their testing.


You may/may not recall one engineer's visit to the Eagle's Nest where only the use of a 'Hawk' TDR tester determined 'something' at or near the cabinet. All previous tests (whatever they had been) had returned LTOK.
That turned out to be something double-jumpered inside the cabinet that the engineer described as "absolute stupidty" or words to that effect.
He may have mentioned bridged tap, but I'm not 100% sure.

I do remember, and would be so bold as to say this probably occurs once in a million. The line tests back then were more based around the low frequency RAT/Eclipse/Fast Test systems, which would return a LTOK result, even if your modem was led in the canal. 'We' have got better at interpreting test results as NGA gathers pace and the systems we use are more apt.

I reiterate, the chances of a 'Bridged tap' in the D-side network (from PCP to DP), is extreme. Not impossible, but extreme.
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waltergmw

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »

@ BS,

Using your definition, I believe we have one "extreme" case we're aware of and around a dozen other anomalies no doubt exhibiting a number of different performance-degrading characteristics causing impedance mismatches. Given the likely knowledge of the average EU, there are almost certainly many more undetected anomalies.

Many EUs, via their ISPs, find it very difficult indeed to even get a site visit, let alone cure the problems. Some of these are common to the D side cable and many are "Too far from the PCP" even though there is a marked degradation after e.g. DP 1042 or DP 1035.

The worrying thing is that "One of the worst mistakes humanity has made"** will result in an increasing clamour from those attempting to manipulate ever-more complex "smart" devices which impose an ever-increasing load for upgrades and in actual use. In the meantime the network can only degrade with insufficient resources, whereas a full fibre deployment continuing on from the start made decades ago could have avoided this desperate situation.

http://www.slideshare.net/PeterCochrane/why-ftth-fibre-to-the-home

VERY well done B4RN in recognising their predicament and resolving their problems by doing it once and doing it properly. Gigaclear and a few others, including BT in Deddington, are scratching at a tiny pimple which does demonstrate a lamentably slow realisation of the only medium term practical solution.

** Dr Peter Cochrane, international expert and former BT CTO in evidence to the House of Lords select committee.

Kind regards,
Walter
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c6em

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 10:56:49 AM »


to add fuel to the debate
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/9977556/BT-chief-hits-out-at-copper-luddites-who-hold-back-UK.html

I've also been told from a third hand source in my area that the BDUK tendering evaluation etc locally is being frustrated by other providers in the industry ( you can guess who is the most likely candidate) trying to object/delay/obstruct the process. The loosers are of course the end customers who have to wait even longer.
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waltergmw

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Re: ECI modem /r statistics and my conclusion
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 02:09:19 PM »

@ c6em,

What a sad state of affairs when the CEO himself has been fooled by his own propaganda; he is just as much of a copper luddite as all the others.
Virgin Media aren't quite so badly off with their younger and more robust metallic co-axial cable (But ONLY where they are deployed) so they have a little more time to upgrade their systems. They do have a further advantage as their ducts to the front doors can quite easily accommodate a fibre tube.

Kind regards,
Walter
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