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Author Topic: FTTC issues - stats query  (Read 7492 times)

asbokid

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Re: FTTC issues - stats query
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2012, 11:24:59 PM »

Being somewhat more awake, I note that the Hlog graph does show some form of line defect.

Notice the pronounced "roll" and "hump" when transitioning to the higher frequencies?

(No doubt that Asbokid will upload an edited version of the image, with a dashed blue line showing the expected path of the curve!  ;)  )

I might pass on that one!   Though the kinky curve is interesting. A measuring quirk but no evidence of a fault as such.

Recall what attenuation is.. a gauge of signal strength.  It is obtained by measuring the amplitude of a signal at two points - at the transmitter and at the receiver.    Those two amplitudes, measured as voltages Vt and Vr, are then divided (Vr/Vt), to obtain a ratio.      The voltage ratio is typically converted to a (logarithmic) decibel (dB) scale with 20log10(Vr/Vt)

The near-end (the DSLAM a.k.a. the VTU-C) and the far-end (the CPE modem or the VTU-R), need to know the attenuation for the individual tones in each band (upstream bands and downstream bands). So that involves an exchange of information (the TX powers) to calculate those ratios.

There are two obvious explanations for the "kinks", or maybe a combination of two explanations..

i) the amplitude measurement circuits in the CPE and in the DSLAM are not calibrated with each other;  or

ii)  the line has propagation characteristics which are different for each end.  More attenuation in one direction than the other.  This seems counter-intuitive.. A line performs the same in both directions, yeh?  Not necessarily. iirc, this is called the distal(?) heterogeneity of a transmission line.

A transmission line for FTTC - the so-called local loop - is usually comprised multiple segments of different cable types - drop cable, one or more D-side cable bundles, and perhaps a short patch cable to the DSLAM linecard. At each point where those segments meet, there will be an impedance mismatch. Since the mismatch points are not equidistant from each end of the loop, the propagation properties will not be homogeneous.  Reflection losses, for example, could more pronounced in signals incident from one end of the loop, than from the other. 

That is why line engineers are encouraged to test a line from both ends.. A fault might not be obvious from tests at one end.

Though probably the most likely explanation for the kinks is (i).. the signal strength measurement circuitry of the DSLAM and the CPE is not well calibrated, or not that precise.

cheers, a
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC issues - stats query
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2012, 01:43:28 AM »

They are both very plausible explanations for the kinks. Thank you for sharing them.

As a firm believer in the principle of KISS, I will go with the simpler of the two -- a mismatch between the Huawei and ECI equipment.  :)   
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jacknorris

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Re: FTTC issues - stats query
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2012, 09:26:37 AM »

Tried the quiet line test, can't really hear anything obvious and I don't think using the landline has any noticeable effect on the error count.

No portable AM radio currently but tested down the road in the car and did hear a very loud buzzing about half way down the road, there are no telegraph poles near but it looks like the cable may run close underground. Not sure if this is the issue though as when the line has been stable I have gone out to check and the buzzing is still present.

Also tried running the modem on the UPS battery which I disconnected from the mains to see if that helped but it didn't. I suppose one of the last things I can do before attempting to report to BT is to just power the house down and check the graphs again.
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: FTTC issues - stats query
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2012, 09:57:28 AM »


Tried the quiet line test, can't really hear anything obvious and I don't think using the landline has any noticeable effect on the error count.

Also tried running the modem on the UPS battery which I disconnected from the mains to see if that helped but it didn't. I suppose one of the last things I can do before attempting to report to BT is to just power the house down and check the graphs again.


Completely powering the house down would at least eliminate any internal power issues (or not).

However, looking at your QLN graphs (2 examples attached), there does appear to be some slight overall general noise.
-140dBm would be more typical for a "quiet" connection rather than the -130dBm or so that your graphs actually report.
That may just explain the fairly regular SNRM fluctuations.

It should be noted that QLN & Hlog data is only obtained during the training period each time the connection resyncs, either on the fly or via a reboot etc.

If you did power everything down & run from a UPS for a while, that would be a good time to obtain your "snapshot" current stats for comparison purposes.

Again, resyncing/rebooting during both "steady" & "unsteady" periods may just demonstrate differing QLN & Hlog levels for reference.


Soimething clearly looks "wrong" as shown by your sudden drop of 10Mb or so in sync speed at Saturday 25th's second resync.



EDIT: FWIW, see my recent QLN graph.
My base levels are "quieter" than your connection, but lots of "spikeyness" can be seen, typical symptoms of cross-talk.
12 months ago, I was one of the first to have FTTC installed from my cabinet & my first graphs were not anywhere near as "spikey".
I suspect that cross-talk has increased on my connection as more users are being connected.


p.s. I'm connected to a Huawei cabinet, hence the lack of any US QLN data.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 10:10:00 AM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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jacknorris

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Re: FTTC issues - stats query
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2012, 11:51:23 AM »

Ahh, I didn't know that the QLN/Hlog data is only updated during a sync - thanks for the info!

Looks like the line is stable at the moment so I have rebooted the modem, modified graphd.bat as you suggested and I have attached ongoing and current line stats.

I will get some more stats when the line becomes unstable again.
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