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Author Topic: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations  (Read 5990 times)

waltergmw

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Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« on: August 21, 2012, 08:59:21 AM »

Gentlefolk,

One wonders how the Culture Secretary can make announcements which seem so far from reality.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/aug/20/jeremy-hunt-broadband-fastest-pledge?newsfeed=true

Yet if one examines the actual FTTC installations it is quite clear that they are not designed for a fibre distribution system nor are the sub-ground fibre node joints.

As an example**

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/gazzyk1ns/fttccabsidelower.jpg

which appears to illustrate an earlier slightly larger fibre termination box design.

Apart from the valiant DIY groups, other commercial organisations of sufficient size are most unlikely to take on the incumbent who quite clearly has invested vast sums in "One of the biggest mistakes humanity has made" °° and must surely obfuscate / oppose any large scale FTTP projects by others.

**Extracted from the article here

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4145843-what-exactly-is-this-called-and-what-exactly-is-it-for.html#Post4145843

°° Paraphrased from Peter Cochrane's evidence to the HoL committee (and where he is adamant that the UK cannot possibly achieve the stated political goals for broadband performance).

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/communications-committee/news/governments-broadband-strategy-risks-leaving-communities-behind/

Kind regards,
Walter
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kitz

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 08:16:23 PM »

When I saw this from Jeremy Hunt
Quote
by ensuring Britain has the fastest broadband network of any major European country by 2015.
../snip/..
but specifically the fastest broadband of any major European country.

I was about to chuck my 2p in, but then I saw the committees report and I think the following just about sums it up.
Quote
the Government is preoccupied with speed rather than focusing on access and the imperative of creating a 'future proof' national network which is built to last.

Theres far too many parts of the UK yet that doesnt have FTTC - even major towns in the UK dont yet have access to FTTC, never-mind medium towns,  and how about parts of the UK that dont even have broadband access at all?

Im assuming Jeremy Hunt meant the City of London when he said Britain. /sarcasm.
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UncleUB

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 10:33:47 PM »

Typical Tory.........Those that have shall have more and those that have little will still have little.
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waltergmw

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 12:23:09 AM »

@ Kitz

It certainly isn't helped when the network maintainers, through there rigid controllers, are actually damaging the network:-

http://www.ewhurst-broadband.org.uk/?p=2751#comments

@ Uncy

IMHO it isn't just this Government but the last one as well and, with the exception of DEFRA and the now defunct RDAs (SEEDA in our case), practically all Public Service people including Ofcom seem hell bent on smoke and mirrors rather than addressing the real problems as they are obliged to do for all taxpayers.

http://www.ewhurst-broadband.org.uk/?p=2809#comments


Kind regards,
Walter
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c6em

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 08:14:18 AM »

Typical Tory.........Those that have shall have more and those that have little will still have little.


Applies equally to the broadband users as well
Those who have standard FTTC are no longer satisfied and want the full 80Mbps.
Plusnet is deluged with those on FTTC and 120GB usage wanting even more usage - demanding unlimited etc and so on.

The attitude of these users seems to be the standard "I want even more and those without FTTC can go fk themselves"
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UncleUB

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 08:29:50 AM »

Typical Tory.........Those that have shall have more and those that have little will still have little.


Applies equally to the broadband users as well
Those who have standard FTTC are no longer satisfied and want the full 80Mbps.
Plusnet is deluged with those on FTTC and 120GB usage wanting even more usage - demanding unlimited etc and so on.

The attitude of these users seems to be the standard "I want even more and those without FTTC can go fk themselves"

I totally agree with those comments,its like an obsession,does it really matter if a large file takes for example 2 minutes instead of 3 minutes to download. :shrug2:
I personally think most of the time its just a game of one-upmanship between Virgin and BT with consumers merely pawns in the game they are playing.

I think a reliable connection and good support should equally come into the mix as well as just pure speed.
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waltergmw

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 02:20:31 PM »

@ Uncy,

I suspect you're probably correct for a proportion of users but there are degrees of ease and difficulty involved for others. E.g.
The farm illustrated below on a lousy line has sub 100 Kbps throughput speeds and can manage to download e-mails but sometimes can't use a browser without page loading time-outs.
Trying to run a business on this basis is a significant (and uneconomic) challenge.

At the other end of the technological spectrum some suppliers are now offering either symmetric fibre connections up to 1 Gbps or 120 Mbps coaxial cable services, although still asymmetric, and with varying degrees of contention.
Those organisations able to supply a true fibre connection (and their clients) will be reaping the benefits of higher speeds and reliabilities with less call-outs than their twisted pair counterparts.
Surely those organisations should not be penalised if they can attract clients who are prepared to pay a reasonable rate just because most of the UK is far less fortunate ?
In the medium term it should become apparent that offerings on a degenerating twisted pair network are no longer acceptable (or economic) so enhancing the probabilities of far more future-proof solutions being developed.

Kind regards,
Walter
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UncleUB

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 04:13:57 PM »

Quote
@ Uncy,

I suspect you're probably correct for a proportion of users but there are degrees of ease and difficulty involved for others. E.g.
The farm illustrated below on a lousy line has sub 100 Kbps throughput speeds and can manage to download e-mails but sometimes can't use a browser without page loading time-outs.
Trying to run a business on this basis is a significant (and uneconomic) challenge.

It must be a nightmare trying to run a successful business with those kind of speeds.The government needs to do more to get these users on a level playing field so they can compete without being held back.Surely the government can see successful companies attract investment which in turn lead to jobs being created.
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kitz

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 11:37:12 AM »

Quote
In the medium term it should become apparent that offerings on a degenerating twisted pair network are no longer acceptable (or economic) so enhancing the probabilities of far more future-proof solutions being developed.

Therein lies the problem and who is going to pay for it.   Many cable companies went bust even though they were cherry picking the more profitable areas.  When was the last time any new cable was laid by the likes of Virgin?  Once you get out of the cities /south, then relatively little cable can be found.  Theres certainly none around here.

I strongly applaud the likes of b4rn and perhaps more incentives should be given to groups like that.  But then again not all communities will be able to do this as it would depend on permission from landowners to cross their land :/ 

This is a very tricky and difficult situation when it comes to the cost of laying cable and getting landowners permission as not all are as obliging.  There are certain parts of the UK that dont even have mains gas..  theres even a new estate been built not far from here that has no gas at all.  Its hardly the back of beyond - right beside a major road and right next to superstores, and only yards from houses who do have gas, yet the builders/whoever decided it wasnt economic to put in gas mains.

Although I do my fair share of moaning about BT when its applicable, at least they are the one major organisation attempting to do something. Virgin isnt going to..   and despite the TT group having the the most broadband subscribers, I dont see them doing anything either. 
The only way forward would be more funding from the government (either central or local), but when funds are so limited anyhow and they seem to be stripping the NHS, benefits, housing, council community funding etc etc etc Im not sure from which purse the funding would come. :(
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c6em

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 12:06:10 PM »

Indeed many villages in the UK don't have gas.
A fact urban dwellers seem unaware of.
I often quote gas as an example of public ownership not meaning universality of access for all.
Clearly putting in gas to these villages was simply not economic when the majority of the gas pipelines were being installed and this was when the gas supply network and the domestic supply was all under the control of the publically owned British Gas.

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waltergmw

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 10:50:26 AM »

@ c6em,

You could also mention mains drainage which some are all to well aware of a few times a year !

@ Kitz

This is quite a revealing short slide show by Peter Cochrane, the former BT CTO:-

http://www.slideshare.net/PeterCochrane/why-ftth-fibre-to-the-home

I have perhaps indirectly made a minor contribution here too on pages 8 & 9:-

http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&refresh=fB0513Mi4y0Y&PBID=aa6d50ca-76cd-4434-827b-050708d40cf5&skip=

Kind regards,
Walter
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c6em

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Re: Political aspirations versus Real-World installations
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 01:26:48 PM »

That's a good point re mains drainage - I had forgotten it.
I should have even more so as my rural road was done in the early 1970's but obviously the money ran out as a nearby road was never included in the scheme and to this day has never been done - they are all still on septic tanks. 
Perhaps the fewer number of properties on this second road per metre run of sewer pipe mean't that yet again it was 'not economically viable'.
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