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[roseway]

There's an interesting Wikipedia article on skin effect here. Half-way down the page is a table of skin depth against frequency, which shows that the skin depth for a middling ADSL frequency is in the region of one tenth of a millimetre, but a lot less at the higher frequencies. So this would be another contributor to the higher attenuation at the higher ADSL frequencies.

Further down that page there's another interesting table of the characterisics of telephone cable against frequency.

[c6em]

Which even more interestingly shows the skin depth of Aluminium to be deeper than that of Copper - though of course it has a higher resistivity than copper.

[renluop]

You may joke but...

Am I being reprimanded? It was a serious jest, but vendors will have to be extremelly circumspect in their information to buyers, given how litigious our society  has become.

[snadge]

is there a contract between BTo and the council too replace aluminum with copper on runs between PCP and Customers home?  apparantley someone spoke to a BTo engineer who said just that!

[kitz]

>> is there a contract between BTo and the council too replace aluminum with copper on runs between PCP and Customers home? 

Couldnt say about a contract as such.. other than I know that the local council was involved in the one near here, but I get the impression that they were more concerned with planning rather than funding. 
Im not aware of any council involvement in another estate that had TPON (took about 5 yrs before they got dsl).   I suppose it may depend on what/who was at the other end ie a primary school which may make them have more interest and therefore invest in the community.  afaik its mostly funded by BT.

[openreach dude]

FTTC installs are to be at very minimum 15mbps..........so i call bullshit with what the guy is saying regarding BTo replacing 1km alu with copper.

[burakkucat]

FTTC installs are to be at very minimum 15mbps..........so i call bullshit with what the guy is saying regarding BTo replacing 1km alu with copper.

Not quite.    The quoted 15 Mbps DS is the minimum for the BT Retail Infinity product. Other ISPs/CPs can purchase GEA from your employer, Openreach and supply their FTTC product with whatever speed is attainable. 

But, yes. Bovine effluvia prevails.

[gouledw]

Im not on FTTC, on ADSL.  9km from the exchange.  But Openreach replaced 3km of cable to our property where there were no other feeds and upgraded it from .5 to .9 gauge to up the BB speed from about .3mb to 2.5mb.  Although beforehand there was a telephone fault on the line.  But still I was suprised they replaced it at all.  Although saying this, it took 12 ISPs, a letter to Ian Livingston, and 2 openreach area managers before they did it, and a lot of pestering.  It took 6 months to fault find all 9km of the line, until they were happy they couldn't do any further.  Think the total job cost was £92k.  and the bugger is we still have problems with our broadband dropping out  . probs think it's bull but there are people on this forum who can back me up.

[c6em]

The clue is "there was a telephone fault on the phone line"
BT has a guarantee of service on voice faults - so if there is no extra feed available and the last feed goes dud then BT HAVE to replace it and HAVE to pick up the tab.....and as you say it ain't cheap.

There is no such guarantee of service for broadband issues.

[kitz]

In your post you just showed how difficult it was and how it took months and even the involvement of Ian livingstone and several area managers  You also mention a telephone fault and only being able to get .3 mbps and the number of hoops you had to jump through before you got yours sorted.

That is entirely different than BT replacing 1km of aluminium in a just a few weeks because a user was "only" getting was it 17/18 Mbps (can't recall exact figure).

[Black Sheep]

FTTC installs are to be at very minimum 15mbps..........so i call bullshit with what the guy is saying regarding BTo replacing 1km alu with copper.

Caveat ....... 15Mbps is the minimum to be achieved before we have to ring our SMC, to either say the EU is happy with the sub-15Meg product, or not. I have only had a couple of these instances on long'ish routes, but going from 0.5/1Mbps to maybe 10Mbps, the EU says they're more than happy.   

[Black Sheep]

Im not on FTTC, on ADSL.  9km from the exchange.  But Openreach replaced 3km of cable to our property where there were no other feeds and upgraded it from .5 to .9 gauge to up the BB speed from about .3mb to 2.5mb.  Although beforehand there was a telephone fault on the line.  But still I was suprised they replaced it at all.  Although saying this, it took 12 ISPs, a letter to Ian Livingston, and 2 openreach area managers before they did it, and a lot of pestering.  It took 6 months to fault find all 9km of the line, until they were happy they couldn't do any further.  Think the total job cost was £92k.  and the bugger is we still have problems with our broadband dropping out  . probs think it's bull but there are people on this forum who can back me up.

I'm not calling you a liar, gouldew, but no ammount of 'chairmans letters' or visits from Openreach Managers is going to get 3Km of cable replaced. If that were the case, we'd all be writing letters, or getting into little gangs to apply pressure up the BT echelon.

There was probably far, far more to it than you are aware of ?? As you are very rural, the cable will most likely be at full capacity, as in no spare wires to add new circuits. Or, somebody coming off a DACS circuit (Splitter box) as they have applied for DSL ??

Even if there was a PSTN fault, they will NOT, I repeat NOT just replace 3Km of cable for that. They will find the faulty section, cut it out, and replace with new.

As I say, I'm commenting in general terms here, not on your specific situation. But I reiterate, that you will not be in full possession of all the facts behind why they did what they did with 'your' feed.

[Jonny]

For what its worth i have been trying to get changed over to the E side for at least 7 years. Copper does exist quite a few spare according to last OpenReach engineer normally kept for emergency services and those that supposedly have to have a good conection.
Mean while up until FTTC couldnt get 3/4meg close on 6km from exchange, at best dropouts measured by the hundred a day on ADSL's.
I would put a bet somehow the OP has just had a simple swap to the E-side.

I am quite confident this alum cable now circa 32 years old is the route of my problems, nigh on impossible as you cant speak direct to the right people. I even tried bargaining with BT some years back, swap me over to E side and i will migrate. As you know BT bend over backwards just to get a sale, not so even for that.
Luckily i am only 270 to 300 yards from cab and only get 42meg which they deem a good connection.

[Black Sheep]

For what its worth i have been trying to get changed over to the E side for at least 7 years. Copper does exist quite a few spare according to last OpenReach engineer normally kept for emergency services and those that supposedly have to have a good conection.
Mean while up until FTTC couldnt get 3/4meg close on 6km from exchange, at best dropouts measured by the hundred a day on ADSL's.
I would put a bet somehow the OP has just had a simple swap to the E-side.

I am quite confident this alum cable now circa 32 years old is the route of my problems, nigh on impossible as you cant speak direct to the right people. I even tried bargaining with BT some years back, swap me over to E side and i will migrate. As you know BT bend over backwards just to get a sale, not so even for that.
Luckily i am only 270 to 300 yards from cab and only get 42meg which they deem a good connection.

Nah, yer getting ripped off there, Johnny. I'd be demanding at least 330Mbps. 'We' deem that to be a good connection.

[openreach dude]

FTTC installs are to be at very minimum 15mbps..........so i call bullshit with what the guy is saying regarding BTo replacing 1km alu with copper.

Not quite.    The quoted 15 Mbps DS is the minimum for the BT Retail Infinity product. Other ISPs/CPs can purchase GEA from your employer, Openreach and supply their FTTC product with whatever speed is attainable. 

But, yes. Bovine effluvia prevails.

My bad, i was assuming the OP meant full FTTC fibre and not just GEA  "faster broadband"