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Author Topic: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0  (Read 39767 times)

asbokid

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Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« on: March 30, 2012, 12:36:46 PM »

It turns out that the BT Business Hub 3.0 is identical, in terms of hardware, to the BT Home Hub 3.0a. 

See Burakkucat's thread for discussion on the Home Hub 3.0a and 3.0b [1]

Below are some snaps of the BT Business Hub 3.0..


The main components on the PCB of the BT Business Hub 3.0 are :

  • Lantiq XWAY ARX168 dual core CPU in an LFBGA304 package [2]
  • Hynix H5DU5162EFR 512Mbit (64MByte) DDR400 SDRAM in a FBGA60 [3]
  • STMicro NAND256W3A 256Mbit (32MByte) 8x NAND flash in a VFBGA55 [4]
  • Lantiq XWAY TANTOS PSB6972 seven-port 100Mbps ethernet switch controller in an LQFP100 [5]
  • Two Lantiq XWAY PEF7071 gigabit ethernet PHYceivers in VQFN48 [6]

cheers, a

[1] http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,10161.0.html
[2] http://www.lantiq.com/uploads/tx_abzlantiqproducts/PB-e-0016-v1_lres.pdf
[3] http://www.hynix.com/../dram/Consumer_H5DU516(8)2EFR-xxx(Rev1.2).pdf
[4] http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/../STMICRO../NAND256W3A2BZA6/../datasheet.pdf
[5] http://www.lantiq.com/uploads/tx_abzlantiqproducts/PB-e-0021-v1_lres.pdf
[6] http://www.lantiq.com/uploads/tx_abzlantiqproducts/PB-e-0019-v2_Ires.pdf

« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 03:23:42 PM by asbokid »
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burakkucat

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 09:31:29 PM »

Thank you for posting that information. I am shocked to know that business users are being provided with the hardware that has been withdrawn from residential use!  :o

Having previously read you expert analysis of the BT HH3.0A v BT HH3.0B, I certainly would not give a HH3.0A space in my grotto. Yes, it is true that I possess a BT HH3.0B but I will certainly not be bothering with the Type 3 BT Business Hub, any time soon.  >:(

Entering the first six characters of your BH's MAC into the MAC address look-up page, I see --

Quote
# Netlookup.se 0.4
#
# MAC-addresses from
# http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/oui/oui.txt
#

Hex:            90-01-3B
Base 16:        90013B
Vendor:         SAGEMCOM

From that we can see that the device was manufactured by Sagemcom.

When I enter the first six characters of my HH3.0B's MAC, it is identified as of Huawei manufacture.

I await, with interest, to read about the software installed on that new BT BH;)

For those interested, here is a list of the various BT Business Hubs, as of today (30th March 2012) --

Type 1. Based on a 2Wire 1800HG
Type 2, Version 1.0, Based on a 2Wire 2700HGV
Type 2, Version 2.0, Based on a 2Wire 2700HGV (Dual SSID variation)
Type 2, Version 3.0, Based on a 2Wire 2701HGV-C
Type 3, Based on the Sagemcom BT Home Hub 3.0A

« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 08:58:54 PM by burakkucat »
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asbokid

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Comparing the BT Business Hubs, BT Home Hubs and the HG612
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »

The following tests may be of interest..

A TalkTalk LLU subscriber line (my parents) was used for the tests.  The DSLAM has an Infineon-chipset.

Six modems were tested on the line.

BT Business Hub BT2700HGV - with a Trimedia TM3260 core and an STMicro ST20184 DSL chipset
BT Business Hub 2701HGV-C - with a Trimedia TM3260 core and a SiLabs Si3112 DSL chipset
BT Home Hub 3.0a - with a Lantiq XWAY ARX168 dual MIPS32/Protocol Processor Engine inc AFE/line driver
BT Home Hub 3.0b - with a Broadcom BCM6361 dual MIPS32 core with integrated AFE/line driver.
BT Business Hub 3.0 - with a Lantiq XWAY ARX168 dual MIPS32/Protocol Processor Engine inc. AFE/line driver
Huawei HG612 (BT Openreach FTTC CPE) - with a Broadcom BCM6368 dual MIPS32 core with integrated AFE/line driver.

Each of these six modems was synced on the line to obtain the basic line statistics data from the GUI/telnet interface.  Each modem was synced once, and then the next modem was tested. In total, each modem was tested three times. Eighteen tests altogether.  The highest sync speed for each modem was the one recorded in the results.  The HG612 was configured to sync in ADSL2+ (G.992.5) mode rather than VDSL2 (G.993.2)  No account was made for transmission/frame errors, just raw sync speeds.

In order of highest d/s sync speed first, the modems performed as follows:

                d/s          u/s
HG612        17332 Kbps  1116 Kbps
BH3.0        16937 Kbps  1021 Kbps
HH3.0a       16752 Kbps  1104 Kbps
HH3.0b       15868 Kbps  1020 Kbps
2701HGV-C    15610 Kbps  1032 Kbps
2700HGV      15240 Kbps  1076 Kbps


Several gremlins appear present in the modems' GUIs:

The downstream rates (sync and actual) for the 2701HGV-C appear to be swapped
The downstream output power (dBm) for the HH3.0b appears to be permanently zero
The downstream rates for the HH3.0a, HH3.0b and BH3.0 appear to be full sync rates,
whereas the upstream rates for the HH3.0a, HH3.0b and BH3.0 appear to be actual rates.


EDIT:
Now that secure shell access has been gained by the PsiDOC.com team, we can see that the HH3.0a GUI reports real data rates, after overheads.    The BH3.0 is based on identical hardware to the HH3.0a. It is not yet unlocked, so we can't be sure, but it is almost certainly reporting real data rates in its GUI, too.  If so, its raw sync rate can only be higher.

cheers, a


BT Business Hub BT2700HGV (2Wire 2700HGV)
Hardware version: 2701-100589-005
Software Version: 6.1.1.48.1-enh.tm
From: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_1_0

Code: [Select]
DSL Details
Modem Type:                 Built in modem - ADSL
DSL Line (Wire Pair):       Line 1 (inner pair)
Current DSL Connection:
                            Down        Up
Rate:                       15240 kbs   1021 kbs
Max Rate:                   15240 kbs   1076 kbs
Noise Margin:               8.9 dB      10.2 dB
Attenuation:                20.6 dB     8.9 dB
Output Power:               20.8 dBm    12.2 dBm

Protocol:                   G.DMT2+ Annex A
Channel:                    Interleaved
DSLAM Vendor Information    Country: {46336} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {50801 }
ATM PVC:                    0/38

Rate Cap:                   15240 kbs
Attenuation @ 300kHz:       20.6 dB
Uncanceled Echo:            -24.4 dB    Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset:      -48.8 ppm   Ok
Final Receive Gain:         -0.1 dB     Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones:  0   Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise:    0   Ok

BT Business Hub 2701HGV-C (2Wire 2701HGV-C)
Hardware version: 2701-100630-008
Software version: 6.3.9.41-plus.tm
From: http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=C_1_0

Code: [Select]
DSL Details
Modem Type:                 Built in modem - ADSL
DSL Line (Wire Pair):       Line 1 (inner pair)
Current DSL Connection:
                            Down        Up
Rate:                       15610 kbs   1021 kbs
Max Rate:                   15153 kbs   1032 kbs
Noise Margin:               8.9 dB      9.1 dB
Attenuation:                20.5 dB     8.7 dB
Output Power:               20.7 dBm    11.4 dBm

Protocol:                   G.DMT2+ Annex A
Channel:                    Interleaved
DSLAM Vendor Information    Country: {46336} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {50801 }
ATM PVC:                    0/38

Rate Cap:                   15153 kbs
Attenuation @ 300kHz:       20.5 dB
Uncanceled Echo:            -25.2 dB    Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset:      -51.2 ppm   Ok
Final Receive Gain:         13.5 dB     Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise:    0   Ok

BT Home Hub 3.0a
Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.57.1.3 (Type A)
From: http://192.168.1.254/index.cgi?active_page=9116 / secure shell console

Code: [Select]

   
ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time:    0 days, 01:25:54
Downstream: 16.11 Mbps  (16,497 Kbps)
Upstream:   1021 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI:                        0/38
Type:                           PPPoA
Modulation:                     G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type:                   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up):         8.6 dB / 11.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up):     15.9 dB / 8.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up):         20.1 dBm / 11.7 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up):           9207 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up):           61 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):  0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up):           1015 / 7
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   34 / 0

asbokid@home:~/# ssh admin@192.168.1.254
admin@192.168.1.254's password:
BT Home Hub 3.0A> dsl line_status
Device enabled:                 Yes
Status:                         Connected
Line modulation:                G.992.5 Annex A
Line encoding:                  DMT
Data path:                      Interleaved
Interleave depth:               64
Upstream current rate:          1020 Kbps
Downstream current rate:        16497 Kbps
Upstream max line rate:         1104 Kbps
Downstream max line rate:       16752 Kbps
Upstream noise margin:          11.00 dB
Downstream noise margin:        8.50 dB
Upstream line attenuation:      8.50 dB
Downstream line attenuation:    15.90 dB
Upstream power:                 11.70 dB
Downstream power:               20.10 dB
Upstream bitswaps requested:    0
Upstream bitswaps deferred, rejected: 0
Upstream bitswaps completed:    0
Upstream bitswaps aborted:      0
Downstream bitswaps requested:  1306
Downstream bitswaps deferred, rejected: 0
Downstream bitswaps completed:  1306
Downstream bitswaps aborted:    0
Showtime start:                 7392 seconds
Quarter hour start:             192 seconds
ATU-R vendor:                   34353637
ATU-R country:                  3233
ATU-C vendor:                   4946544E
ATU-C country:                  B500
Showtime RX blocks:             289086
Showtime TX blocks:             288988
Showtime loss of framing errors:0
Showtime errored seconds:       34
Showtime severely errored seconds: 0
Showtime FEC errors:            9207
Showtime ATU-C FEC errors:      0
Showtime HEC errors:            1015
Showtime ATU-C HEC errors:      7
Showtime CRC errors:            61
Showtime ATU-C CRC errors:      32
Showtime cell-delineation errors: 0
Showtime link-retrain errors:   0
Showtime initialization errors: 0
Showtime initialization timeout errors: 0
Current day RX blocks:          289086
Current day TX blocks:          289086
Current day loss of framing errors: 0
Current day errored seconds:    34
Current day severely errored seconds: 0
Current day FEC errors:         9207
Current day ATU-C FEC errors:   0
Current day HEC errors:         1015
Current day ATU-C HEC errors:   7
Current day CRC errors:         61
Current day ATU-C CRC errors:   32
Current day cell-delineation errors: 0
Current day link-retrain errors:2
Current day initialization errors: 0
Current day initialization timeout errors: 0
Quarter hour RX blocks:         11294
Quarter hour TX blocks:         11294
Quarter hour loss of framing errors: 0
Quarter hour errored seconds:   0
Quarter hour severely errored seconds: 0
Quarter hour FEC errors:        0
Quarter hour ATU-C FEC errors:  0
Quarter hour HEC errors:        0
Quarter hour ATU-C HEC errors:  0
Quarter hour CRC errors:        0
Quarter hour ATU-C CRC errors:  0
Quarter hour cell-delineation errors: 0
Quarter hour link-retrain errors: 0
Quarter hour initialization errors: 0
Quarter hour initialization timeout errors: 0
BT Home Hub 3.0A>

BT Home Hub 3.0b
Software version V100R001C01B031SP09_L_B
From: http://bthomehub.home/html/settings/a_adsl.html

Code: [Select]
ADSL Line Status
Connection information
Line state:                     Connected
Connection time:                0 day, 00:00:54
Downstream:                     15,868 Kbps
Upstream:                       1,020 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI:                        0/38
Type:                           PPPoA
Modulation:                     G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type:                   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up):         9.2 dB / 12.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up):     19.5 dB / 9.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up):         0.0 dBm / 12.4 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up):           0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up):           0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):  0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):          0
HEC Errors (Down/Up):           8 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   0 / 0

BT Business Hub 3.0   
Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.77 (Type A)
From: http://192.168.1.254/index.cgi?active_page=9119

Code: [Select]
ADSL Line Status

Connection Information
Line state:                     Connected
Connection time:                0 days, 00:01:34
Downstream:                     16.54 Mbps  (16,937 Kbps)
Upstream:                       1021 Kbps
 
ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI:                        0/38
Type:                           PPPoA
Modulation:                     G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type:                   Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up):         8.9 dB / 11.6 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up):     17.0 dB / 8.4 dB
Output power (Down/Up):         20.0 dBm / 12.0 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up):           210 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up):           1 / 64
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):  0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up):           12 / 14
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   1 / 0

Huawei EchoLife HG612 
Hardware version    B482FE-21530304288K04006088
Software version    V100R001C01B028SP10
From telnet console:

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max:       Upstream rate = 1116 Kbps, Downstream rate = 17332 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 1020 Kbps, Downstream rate = 15401 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   ADSL2+
TPS-TC:                 ATM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                        Down        Up
SNR (dB):               9.1         12.2
Attn(dB):               19.0         9.7
Pwr(dBm):               20.8        12.3
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 04:22:44 PM by asbokid »
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huwwatkins

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 10:24:52 PM »

I didnt realise the FTTC modems worked on ADSL2+ lines, seems to be doing a really good job!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 10:28:20 PM by huwwatkins »
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asbokid

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 11:41:16 AM »

Hi guys,

@burakkucat

The results surprised me, too in several ways. Caveat though: the results could be wrong!

Neither the BT BH3.0 nor the HH3.0a or HH3.0b explicitly state whether the data rates reported in the GUIs are maximum attainable or real rates (minus overheads).  But then if they are just 'real' data rates that would mean that the max. attain. rates must be higher.  In which case the BH3.0 and the HH3.0a would rise the ranks to become the very best of the bunch!

I studied the boards of the BH3.0 and the HH3.0a closely and couldn't spot any difference.  The DSP engine is integrated into the Lantiq ARX168 CPU.  And the version number (1.2) of the CPU is the same in both the BH3.0 and the HH3.0a.   So the marginally better performance of the BH3.0 compared to the HH3.0a could either be due to differences from manufacturing tolerances, or else the BH3.0 has an improved DSP driver in its firmware.

The firmware of the HH3.0a is reported as 4.7.5.1.83.8.57.1.3 (Type A)
The firmware of the BH 3.0 is reported as 4.7.5.1.83.8.77 (Type A)

As you have pointed out, the MAC addresses of the BH3.0 and the HH3.0a are both registered to Sagemcom, who apparently were once part of SAGEM (Société d'Applications Générales de l'Électricité et de la Mécanique), the French defence electronics giant.    However, in 2008, SAGEM's communications arm was spun off into the hands of the private equity firm, the Carlyle Group, and it trades today as Sagemcom.

From http://www.sagemcom.com/UK/about-sagemcom.html :

Quote
Sagemcom is a French high technology group, active globally . Thanks to its proven capacity for innovation, the group is in a leadership position in many markets. Sagemcom aims to become a world leader in broadband terminals, convergence and energy solutions. Formerly the Communications Branch of SAGEM, Sagemcom is now a private independent group held by the Carlyle Group, as well as employees.

@ HuwWatkins

Yes, the Huawei (but probably not the ECI*) supports VDSL2, ADSL2+, ADSL2, as well as ADSL1 (G.Dmt) and its N.American equivalent T1.1413.

From http://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/using-the-hg612-on-an-adsl2-line/


Of course, it's possible that the reported line statistics are false in any or all of the GUIs.

Lies, Damn Lies and xDSL Statistics, as someone once said!

cheers, a

* EDIT:  it seems that the VRX268/VRX208 chipset in the ECI is multi-mode VDSL2/ADSL capable. Hopefully those capabilities are supported in the Openreach firmware [1]

[1] http://www.lantiq.com/products/broadband-customer-premises-equipment/vdsl/xwaytm-vrx200/xwaytm-vrx268-vrx208/
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 08:52:10 PM by asbokid »
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huwwatkins

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 02:59:19 PM »

Are the Huawei ones available in  retail? I'm tempted to get one.
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burakkucat

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 08:01:27 PM »

Are the Huawei ones available in  retail? I'm tempted to get one.

There's one, brand new & boxed, available on eBay . . . current bid £0-99  :)
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asbokid

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 04:08:52 PM »

Bill who runs the Tripod site dedicated to BT Business Hubs has posted a set of screenshots for the new Business Hub 3.0 (BH3.0)     [1]

The screenshots show that the BH3.0, like other Hubs, is domain-locked (via the PPP/CHAP username) to ISPs in the BT Group, and affiliated companies.

The team at PsiDOC.com has successfully unlocked the HomeHub 3.0a, a device that is hardware-identical to the Business Hub 3.0.   Hopefully, the BH3.0 will soon be unlockable, too.  [2]

Ironically, TalkTalk does not use PPP/CHAP authentication, so BT's domain lock is no obstacle to using any compatible BT Hub with a TalkTalk service.

cheers, a

[1] http://bt2700hgv.tripod.com/ir1002700HGVplusnetBH3.htm
[2] http://www.psidoc.com/forumdisplay.php/32-Home-Hub-3.0A-Tutorials
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 04:11:50 PM by asbokid »
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gouledw

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 08:02:38 PM »

Which chipset in the Home Hubs would you say performs best? Stability wise.  I have a 9km line, and have had the Type B plugged in and its held for 12 days now, but I would like just an extra twig of speed to bump up to the next profile.  I dont dare put the Type A in though because of the things i've heard about it, i have business hubs 2701 and 2700 hgv but there only wireless g which doesn't stretch it for me unfortunately :/.

Kind Regards
Edd
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asbokid

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 08:55:31 PM »

Which chipset in the Home Hubs would you say performs best? Stability wise.  I have a 9km line, and have had the Type B plugged in and its held for 12 days now, but I would like just an extra twig of speed to bump up to the next profile.  I dont dare put the Type A in though because of the things i've heard about it, i have business hubs 2701 and 2700 hgv but there only wireless g which doesn't stretch it for me unfortunately :/.

Hi Edd,

Probably much depends on the chipset used in the DSLAM.  DSLAM chipset makers apparently use proprietary xDSL extensions to enhance performance, and these will only work with compatible modems.

The TalkTalk kit that I did those rudimentary tests on (and there are errors in those tests),  is an Infineon chipset.  In 2009, Infineon wireline division was spun off into Lantiq.

So perhaps it's not surprising that the HH3.0a and the BH3.0, both being based on the Lantiq ARX168, perform well with a Lantiq/Infineon DSP chipset in the DSLAM:

cheers, a

P.S. Here is the vendor info for the TalkTalk DSLAM..

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --vendor
..
ChipSet Vendor Id: IFTN:0x71c6
ChipSet VersionNumber: 0x71c6
ChipSet SerialNumber:
#
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 09:00:40 PM by asbokid »
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gouledw

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 10:28:28 PM »

The DSLAM Chipset manufacturer is Alcatel.

Thanks,
Edd
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waltergmw

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2012, 11:05:10 PM »

Hi Edd,

You could always try the business hubs with an additional wireless access point which are quite cheap now.

Kind regards,
Walter
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gouledw

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 07:42:21 PM »

Does anyone know of any BBH 3 firmware images anywhere?
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burakkucat

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 09:02:10 PM »

No, sorry, Edd:no:
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:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Inside the BT Business Hub 3.0
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2012, 08:39:31 AM »

Sorry to bump this thread, but I am bit confused by your data. According to the top data, the Huawei HG612 syncs the fastest, but your telnet data doesn't agree with that. Could you explain?

Edit: For the HG612, it appears that you have posted the max rate rather than the actual rate! The actual rate is 15401 Kbps. Or am I just being silly?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 08:46:08 AM by arobertson545 »
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