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[guest]

Sorry to disillusion you but it is really the only change a UK consumer can make which WILL make a difference. Everything else (bar getting rid of your car) really does make no appreciable difference - eg 40% of electricity power is lost in transmission - way before it ever reaches the consumer so energy efficiency at your end shouldn't really be the priority.

Stop flying.

Stop driving.

Yes I know stopping driving is virtually impossible outside London. Flying is a choice - nobody NEEDS to do it, they choose to.

Anything else then don't feel guilty about it for any changes you make will matter not a jot. Some of the changes will save you cash so do it on that basis - doing it to save the planet? How long do you think it'll take to recover the "carbon cost" of making a thermostatic radiator valve eh? Solar panels? You will never recover the "carbon cost" of domestic solar panels. The monetary cost perhaps...

We need to view the whole matter differently I reckon. Eg - lets cut down trees but build HOUSES from them. That locks the carbon in the tree up for 100 years or so if done right. Then plant some more trees, rinse and repeat.

Me? I suspect the tipping point in climate change has already happened. We just haven't discovered it yet. I'm a cynic however.

[ralphw]

Thing is though if I decide to be green and don't fly, that plane will still go on it's scheduled journey so with that in mind I might as well be on it.

[roseway]

I'm not getting at you Ralph, but that's a bit of a false argument. Flight schedules, like nearly everything else, are driven by demand. If the demand falls, then fewer flights will be scheduled.

[ralphw]

Yes I know it is an iffy reason but it was the best I could think of at the time.  May come up with another later after some refreshment..

[guest]

Oh hell. I'm not getting at ANYONE.

It may sound like it but I'm not. The reality is that nothing anyone (individual or business) does in the UK will make the slightest difference to climate change. China is playing catch-up in an incredible way and India now beggars belief as to how fast the economy is growing. Either India or China on their own make the total UK emissions seem like a puff of smoke.

All I'm trying to point out is that there is really only two things UK consumers can do to make an appreciable difference to their own "carbon footprint". Everything else is smoke and mirrors - ESPECIALLY "green energy" suppliers.

[ralphw]

I wasn't taking it personally Rizla, I never do on this forum, we are all too sensible for that, I hope!!!

[Floydoid]

Yes I know stopping driving is virtually impossible outside London.

I beg to differ.  I don't drive and I don't live in London.  Admittedly I do live in a city, and fairly close to the centre of it.  All the amenities I need to live a decent lifestyle (including place of employment) are within 20 minutes walk from here.  For the occasions when I venture further away we have adequate bus and rail links.  Never have owned a car (nor had a driving license for that matter), so if I did own a car I wouldn't have any use for it.

[guest]

ralphw : Good - its hard to tell

Floydoid : good for you, wish I could say the same - here in the world's first "Environment City" (yes really it is Leicester) it is cheaper to take a taxi than the bus - assuming 2 adults and one child. There is NO "public" transport outside London - it is all private. Interesting how Maggie deregulated EVERY bus service in the UK outside London eh?

[Floydoid]

Don't get me started on the topic of Maggie.

[kitz]

btw wth is all this "carbon friendly insurance" that I keep seeing the ads on TV all on about anyhow.

Surely its up to the driver/milage and the car/parts that makes the most difference - not the insurance!

ecoinsurance is the UK's first car insurance policy to help offset some of the damage your car's CO2 emissions cause to the environment. We all know that vehicle emissions are bad for the environment - but until there's a practical alternative to owning a car, there's ecoinsurance.

So in other words they just donate a percentage of your policy for reforestation.

[guest]

Do a whois at nominet on the mob running the ads kitz. Then go to companieshouse.co.uk and put in the company name (edit - number rather than name). Now look at what they used to be called.

Now rearrange :

the bandwagon on jumping

Smoke & mirrors.

Edit - for those who have no idea how to do this :

Output from whois query :

10/26/07 12:25:41 whois ibuyeco.co.uk
.uk is a domain of United Kingdom
(international dialing code 44)
Searches for .uk can be run at http://www.britain.eu.net/naming-co/whois-form.html

whois -h whois.nic.uk ibuyeco.co.uk ...


    Domain name:

        ibuyeco.co.uk



    Registrant:

        Ben Meadows



    Registrant type:

        UK Limited Company, (Company number: 3231094)



    Registrant's address:

        Pegasus House

        Bakewell Road Orton Southgate

        Peterborough

        Cambs

        PE2 6YS

        GB



    Registrar:

        Pipex Communications UK Ltd t/a 123-Reg.co.uk [Tag = 123-REG]

        URL: http://www.123-reg.co.uk



    Relevant dates:

        Registered on: 15-Mar-2007

        Renewal date:  15-Mar-2009

        Last updated:  25-Apr-2007



    Registration status:

        Registered until renewal date.



    Name servers:

        ns.123-reg.co.uk

        ns2.123-reg.co.uk



    WHOIS lookup made at 12:25:36 26-Oct-2007



--

This WHOIS information is provided for free by Nominet UK the central registry
for .uk domain names. This information and the .uk WHOIS are:

    Copyright Nominet UK 1996 - 2007.

You may not access the .uk WHOIS or use any data from it except as permitted
by the terms of use available in full at http://www.nominet.org.uk/whois, which
includes restrictions on: (A) use of the data for advertising, or its
repackaging, recompilation, redistribution or reuse (B) obscuring, removing
or hiding any or all of this notice and (C) exceeding query rate or volume
limits. The data is provided on an 'as-is' basis and may lag behind the
register. Access may be withdrawn or restricted at any time. [/i]

Companies House says its a company called BISL Ltd who used to be called Budget Insurance Services Ltd and prior to that PacketChange Ltd

Offsetting is, in the majority of cases I have looked at, totally unregulated and open to abuse. Googling Ben Meadows suggests they are a US forestry supplier. Hmmm do I want to be giving money to them? I think not.

[kitz]

Domain name:
ecoinsurance.co.uk

Registrant:
Co-operative Financial Services

Registrant type:
Unknown

>> the bandwagon on jumping
>> Smoke & mirrors.

Yes I suspected that - but thought it was just me that was being a cynic.

As an aside is it just me that cant get their CO2 calculator to work in either IE, FF or Opera?

lmao - just checked the source code - theres no select options coded in the form.

[guest]

Ah I thought you were on about the "I buy Eco" ads

[kitz]

>> Ah I thought you were on about the "I buy Eco" ads

Yeah I think I was -
your edit and my above post crossed - I was obviously looking at the wrong company.
I'd seen the ads but couldnt remember the name - now you mention it - it was I buy eco.   
Id done a seach on ecoinsurance.

[guest]

It rather looks to me that "I buy Eco" car insurance "offsets" with the company that owns them. See the smoke & mirrors involved in offsetting?