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 on: Today at 01:47:32 AM 
Started by kitz - Last post by WWWombat
However, the DLM applying banding without INP is akin to increasing the SNRM, still without INP. So I suppose it depends on what the DLM is trying to protect against. If the DLM is trying to increase resilience against sources of constant noise, then it might increase the target SNRM, or cap the rate, which both achieve the same result.

Simplistically, it is equivalent.

However, I think banding is (in a broader sense) considered to be a newer, superior DLM mechanism than increasing the target SNRM, and is described as such in NICC's document on DLM. This might relate back to power settings, and might not fully apply to BT's model.

Alternatively, if it's trying to protect against pulsed noise sources, either isolated pulses, or repetitive (REIN), then it could set INP. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if BT try to avoid any form of INP to avoid the equipment using slightly more electricity from doing all that extra processing.

If BT were that worried, surely they wouldn't have bothered with G.INP, where all that extra processing is turned on anyway?

 on: Today at 01:39:32 AM 
Started by kitz - Last post by WWWombat
I wonder if it could be the result of an overloaded amplifer input stage due to a defect in an AGC circuit failing to stabilise the overall gain. Or something similar. (Whatever any of that may mean . . .)  :-\



Oh, wait....

I've no idea what any of that meant  :doh:

I know what the words signify, but I haven't the foggiest what the impact would be on a copper line. It's all that analogue stuff, right?

 on: Today at 01:35:41 AM 
Started by kitz - Last post by WWWombat
Already been there.  It appears to affect U2, D1, D2, D3.   See attached graphs below from when I was doing the intensive logging and it shows up very clearly.

Interesting to see the differences, and that band aren't affected equally. I really wanted to see different graphs though - the ones that show the SNRM for each individual tone - the 4th graph in the "Tones" tab in DSLstats.

The swings of 6-7dB in those SNRM-per-band graphs should show up as significant difference between one graph timed when the composite-SNRM is peaking vs one graph when the composite is troughing.

 on: Today at 01:28:04 AM 
Started by kitz - Last post by WWWombat
. . . without a break in service. The latter statement does not seem possible but it is the case. (It can be done with extra jumpering and implies that, for a time, there will be double jumpers linking the "left-hand side" with the "right-hand side".)

Yes, that is indeed what happens. I thought this was what Openreach refers to as being T'ed (or is that Tee'd?).

It tends to happen when OR are working on many lines, without anyone reporting a fault, and is done to keep service in place when a break in service is not expected.

(OT: There was a brief scene in the "Dial B for Britain" programme, where they cutover a new exchange. A row of engineers pulling whole columns of breakers in the MDF, so lines were instantly changed from old exchange to new one).

the last 24 hours SNRM plot from Kitz' circuit. Notice the difference from what I described, above? The two "ruler-straight" lines have now been replaced with those that show a 24 hour cyclical effect;

Ah, right. I was looking at kitz' own pictures, where the cyclic effect was the 5 min 35 sec. But yes - strange for a line to change from having no diurnal changes to having a significant one. Something has opened the line up to EMI that it plainly wasn't susceptible to before.

 on: Today at 12:41:16 AM 
Started by Mrbizzle - Last post by Mrbizzle
When i first signed up i had the full 75mb when i tested the connection was a long time ago now and being a new'ish build site probably most are on infinity as no virgin here and is a long line for ADSL so speeds were bad

 on: Today at 12:35:17 AM 
Started by Mrbizzle - Last post by WWWombat
What would the maximum uptime for the router without me changing settings for the dlm to settle on my connection? To see if fastpath would come back

That's a simple question with a complicated answer.

The first part of the answer is that, if you need to manually disconnect the modem or reboot it, then it is best to leave it disconnected or powered off for at least half an hour. That way DLM doesn't mistake it for a failure, so won't include the resync when deciding to intervene further.

The second part is that DLM has a complicated way of deciding when to reduce its level of intervention. It bases that decision on seeing a low level of errors and a low level of disconnections for a certain number of days consecutively. Depending on the history of the line, and any recent errors, that could be anywhere from 1 day to over a month.

It certainly pays to make sure that DLM doesn't see any unnecessary resyncs nor any unnecessary errors. The ASUS does you no favours there, because you can't see the important error statistics. And, to be fair, DLM likely intervenes most because of error rates, not disconnections.

Am i right in saying that 11.8 attenuation means i should get pretty close the 80mb? I have seen my max sync rate at 110,000kbps

12dB attenuation should give you a very good chance of getting 80/20 speeds.  One old line of mine was 16dB, and got 80/20 at first, but gradual increases in crosstalk took speeds just below. My current line is 8dB, and easily gets 80/20 speeds.

Unfortunately, the "max attainable" figure is one of the ASUS values I don't think is trustworthy, so I don't know whether you can believe it. However, if you were one of the first subscribers to get service on the cabinet then it is a plausible number.

 on: Today at 12:28:51 AM 
Started by Mrbizzle - Last post by Mrbizzle
I'll try not to touch for 7-9 days and cross my fingers it's been wrecking my brain for about 3-4 weeks now i check DSL log every morning around 6.30am as the resyncs seem to happen then each time i pray to see interleaving  depth 1 😂

I actually bought this router after the kitchen was finished and noticed slower sync and thought maybe time for new modem but now since reading a few bits it was just dlm doing its thing
Am i right in saying that 11.8 attenuation means i should get pretty close the 80mb? I have seen my max sync rate at 110,000kbps

 on: Today at 12:20:42 AM 
Started by Mrbizzle - Last post by kitz
It does look like you are on an ECI cab.  Unfortunately I will echo Wombats comments about the ASUS modems in general.  I believe there is one which has a BCM chipset which may be ok, but generally most have been problematic in some areas. 

The NGA DLM doesn't appear to like being forced into changing the Target SNRm.  Openreach supposedly put some measures in place to stop most modems being able to lower the NGA Target SNRm (BT had a strong dislike of the old DMTtool which people used to use to try avoid DLM intervention) afaik there is still only the ASUS modems which have some sucess.  Several people on this forum have resorted to capping their max sync speed and have had more sucess this way when trying to remove interleaving.   Bear in mind though, the more DLM has intervened on your line, then the longer it will take for it to be removed.

BTW... Interleave depth tends to vary with sync speed, eg the faster the sync speed usually the higher the interleave depth so dont pay too much attention to those figures.  I tend to find delay or INP more useful. 

However that said, the 2.3 shown in your stats looks invalid.  DLM uses 3 and 3.5 for non G.INP lines.
Your MAX rate also seems to be overly generous.   

 on: Today at 12:18:29 AM 
Started by BC88 - Last post by WWWombat
Just to follow up on what Black Sheep wrote...

The VDSL2 estimates are done based on the DP's identity, and the known losses between the cabinet and the DP. If a line has the wrong DP recorded, then it will get the wrong estimate.

The DP, by the way, is the plastic connection box at the top of the telegraph pole, and the DP number is usually nailed onto the pole at eye level. If their cable goes to that pole, then it almost certainly wires into that DP.

If your parents are actually wired into DP676 like the neighbour, it is likely that, if they ordered, then they'd just get the same speed.

 on: Today at 12:05:51 AM 
Started by Weaver - Last post by clonc
Then the italian review contains a mistake.....

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