Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Other Technologies & Hardware => Topic started by: banger on February 25, 2018, 06:01:25 PM
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Considering an Echo or Echo Dot from Amazon. But one thing puzzles me, how does one connect the Echo to wifi without an Apple or Android phone? I have looked at the Amazon page and it says you can use a web browser to connect to wifi but I cannot fathom how this would work with my current setup (DSL-N55U router with wifi password on 2.4 and 5 g). Or would I have to enable a guest network on the router specifically for the Echo's use.
Also was planning on getting an Echo Dot for my bedroom table for music playback and radio listening and if all went well an Echo for the kitchen for similar use. Is this possible? From what I have read it seems you can link your music via spotify which now has my groove music imported into it as the groove and spotify have joined forces.
Any ideas welcome before I spend any money.
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No need for a guest network, you just need the app and an Alexa account from Amazon - the "app" works on a PC/Laptop all you do is sign into your Alexa account and follow the instructions in the settings section.
If you have Amazon Prime you will also have access to Amazon Music, but for greater music options you may want to subscribe to other streaming providers, including Amazon or Spotify.
You can also connect via Bluetooth and play music from your own device that way.
The sound quality is noticeably better on the Echo, but the Dot is not bad.
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You can only link Spotify if you have a Spotify subscription, it won't work with a free account. You can also stream music from your PC/server with the My Media skill.
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What an interesting question, even for me who has no particular interest in Alexa. How the heck can the initial set up take place, and how can the web setup talk to the Echo begore it has joined the WiFi. :-\
I think I eventually figured out the answer. The Echo seems to provide its own wireless network, with an obvious name like ‘Amazon-something’. During setup, you’ll be given instructions to reconfigure your PC’s WiFi , such that the PC connects to the echo. That would obviously allow the Echo to be configured.
It won’t work I assume, if your PC just has an ethernet cable, and no WiFi card.
That is my understanding. If correct, it is amazing that Amazon don’t explain how it works (only how to do it), or explain that it needs a PC with built in Wi Fi. If incorrect, I hope a better explanation will be provided.... :D
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So to be clear, this is the Amazon App in the Windows Store that can be used to set up an Echo Dot?
Thanks for the tip about Spotify Ronski I only have a free account but Media Skill sounds the way to go.
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I think I have sussed it by googling (oh the irony). Apparently you goto alexa.amazon.com on your PC and login with amazon details then have access to the Alexa app. I only got as far as the User agreement but it seems that is the way to set up wifi.
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I think I have sussed it by googling (oh the irony). Apparently you goto alexa.amazon.com on your PC and login with amazon details then have access to the Alexa app. I only got as far as the User agreement but it seems that is the way to set up wifi.
But your Amazon login cannot possibly allow the Echo to join your WiFi, or allow Amazon to ‘talk’ to the Echo in any way.
Still pretty sure it works as I described earlier. ;)
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Waiting to confirm either way before taking the plunge. If that is the case 7, how does the phone app detect the echo?
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Waiting to confirm either way before taking the plunge. If that is the case 7, how does the phone app detect the echo?
I would guess, by a similar endeavour, though a dedicated phone App can create the illusion that it is all a bit more seamless than it is.
Maybe an initial communication by Bluetooth might play a part, too? I think (not certain) there’s other services that allow a device that already has WiFi access (in this case the phone) to disclose the stored WiFi password to a second device, using data usage exchanged over bluetooth. Still not sure how the initial bluetooth connection would happen, mind you.
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@banger ignore those who don't have the device, the app works - you have a choice via phone or PC, the PC version is just a explorer/edge your favourite browser link to the Alexa login. The app can "see" your echo on on our network, and can transfer Wi-Fi log in details when it's in setup mode.
Not sure of the technical details, but it works, if you prefer, mabe it's magic ;)
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Thanks Iain, I like magic. :D
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@banger ignore those who don't have the device, the app works
That does appear to be Amazon’s pitch, but in adopting that level of detail it does suggests to me that the device is aimed at those of, shall we say, below average technical competence? And credit to them for that, it seems to be a big success, a clever and very useful gadget, and cleverly marketed. I might even buy one. :)
Personally though, I seriously doubt whether Amazon have indeed managed to exploit some completely unkown vulnerability in the WiFi security of all home routers, that allows them to compromise everybody’s networks. If such an exploit were ro be discovered, vulnerabilities like the recent Spectre and Meltdown would pale into insignificance. :D
Far more likely, it works as explained in reply #3, unless anybody can offer an alternative explanation...
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Hi
@7lm - perhaps it works like like the cargenie from AA and then sets up Wi-Fi from user inputs
This might explain why it does not need Wi-Fi, Bluetooth or internet connection from the user to start with. However, once setup, no data charges to 3/4g inbuilt
I do have to say though, I do not use or have Alexa devices and would certainly not have any internet connected devices in the bedroom - including mobile phone
I’m too suspicious but could be entirely wrong
Many thanks
John
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I think the Echo is always listening as are some Samsung TVs, but all it would hear in my bedroom is my dog snoring or me snoring. :)
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I do have to say though, I do not use or have Alexa devices and would certainly not have any internet connected devices in the bedroom - including mobile phone
I’m too suspicious but could be entirely wrong
I share your suspicions. I have weakened a little, otherwise my Apple watch would be of limited use without Siri.
My current desktop PC (an iMac) has a microphone and built in camera above the screen. I relctantly accept and use the microphone but the camera lens has been covered, since the day I got it, by a small lump of Blu Tack. :D
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I've set up several dots/Alexa's and a couple of firesticks but all using the mobile app where it is very easy.
The app walks you through the process, however you do need to switch networks as they broadcast on their own wifi channel until the device is set up to work on your own network. I should image the PC app will be similar.
Most of the smart home appliances (eg TP-link/Hive/Chrome) have their own wi-fi network for set-up. You just have to remember to switch your phone/laptop back to your usual wifi network afterwards if it hasnt already done so automatically.
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I share your suspicions. I have weakened a little, otherwise my Apple watch would be of limited use without Siri.
Me too initially, but it has made my life so much easier, that I literally couldn't be without it.. or rather them... now. They can make you a little bit lazy as I'm fore ever wishing I could control far more things with it.
Alexa has a 'wake word' which by default is 'Alexa'. It can be a bit annoying when Alexa ads come on the TV as I've had some weird results, when she starts obeying the orders from the TV.
I also have a true story where Alexa responded to me shouting 'Oh God' which freaked me out a little at the time with how she replied.
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The app walks you through the process, however you do need to switch networks as they broadcast on their own wifi channel until the device is set up to work on your own network. I should image the PC app will be similar.
I think that confirms my understanding. :)
Still not sure how it would work though, from a PC that had only wired LAN? I really think it just wouldn’t work.
Alexa has a 'wake word' which by default is 'Alexa'. It can be a bit annoying when Alexa ads come on the TV as I've had some weird results, when she starts obeying the orders from the TV.
I also have a true story where Alexa responded to me shouting 'Oh God' which freaked me out a little at the time with how she replied.
Apple Siri false triggers at pretty rare, but do happen. I was alone in the house, no radio, no TV, I wasn’t even muttering much that day. Just loading the dishwasher around lunchtime, clattering of saucepans and crockery, somehow my watch managed to interpret a “Hey Siri”, watch gave me a tap on the wrist. ???
Futuristic voice assistant, as predicted by script writers for “The Clangers”, perhaps? :D
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I was reading the reviews on the Dot and some customers said you can change Alexa to "computer" or another two watch words but I am not sure how this is done to avoid TV ads kicking off Alexa.
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Still not sure how it would work though, from a PC that had only wired LAN? I really think it just wouldn’t work.
I don't think that would work, AIUI it needs wifi to setup is via its own wifi network. As I mentioned above it broadcasts on its own wifi channel and you have to connect to that to set it up. To clarify, you have to disconnect your phone/laptop from your existing home wifi network and connect to the echo wifi.
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My Hive system is setup via LAN or wifi, but that has a hub which plugs into the router.
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From the official set up page (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201601770)
To download the Alexa app, go to the app store on your mobile device and search for "Alexa app." Then select and download the app.
You can also go to https://alexa.amazon.co.uk from Safari, Chrome, Firefox, Microsoft Edge, or Internet Explorer (10 or higher) on your Wi-Fi enabled computer.
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From google to change Alexa's name to computer.
To change your wake word, follow these steps:
Open the Alexa app on your phone.
Slide out the left-hand navigation panel and tap Settings.
Tap the device that you want to change.
Scroll down and tap Wake Word.
Tap the drop down and choose Computer from the list.
Tap Save.
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Yes it is quite easy to change the wake word and I had considered doing so but the choice was limited to just Amazon, Echo or Computer. :(
I believe Amazon got quite a lot of complaints around xmas time about the ads.. and they were supposedly taking that onboard. I think we discussed it a few months back in another thread. Now I think about it, I don't think it's happened recently, but then again I can't recall hearing any ads for the Alexa for a while.
The Amazon app itself is quite nice and everything seems clearly laid out. I tend to use the app on my phone rather than PC as its easier to swipe and tap.
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Interesting discussion of false triggers, and myth-busting, in a recent Guardian article...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/14/amazon-alexa-ad-avoids-ban-after-viewer-complaint-ordered-cat-food
The Guardian article mentions that Amazon ‘marks’ TV ads that might cause false triggers. If so, that might be one reason for restricting the choice of wake words?
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Amazon said it was aware of the potential issue and “marks” ads so that Alexa is not triggered.
I wonder if this marking is a new thing after the complaints last year. As mentioned above mine hasn't been triggered by ads recently, but for a while last year and up to xmas it certainly was doing.
The Oh God trigger was a month ago, not sure if it picked up something from the combo of other words I used as I was in a lot of pain at the time and there were some expletives in there too.
Interestingly I can play this ad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6-8DQALGt4) and she doesnt respond to any of the Alexa commands. She doesn't even blip blue to show she's awake and waiting for a command, despite the number of times the word Alexa is said. I wonder how they do that?
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Interestingly I can play this ad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6-8DQALGt4) and she doesnt respond to any of the Alexa commands. She doesn't even blip blue to show she's awake and waiting for a command, despite the number of times the word Alexa is said. I wonder how they do that?
Oh wow. I found the answer here (https://iot.stackexchange.com/questions/828/why-doesnt-the-amazon-echo-respond-to-advertisements-or-reports-about-alexa)
Well, the echo/Alexa definitely hears the request. If you go into your settings, scroll down to General and then select history you can play back all of the requests which are heard. All of the requests that are heard from the commercial say "Voice request not intended for your Echo—nothing was returned.".
So I did that and sure enough there's about a dozen or so notifications at the time I played that particular Ad which says
"Text not available. Click to play recording"
So I click and It says "Voice request not intended for your Echo - nothing was returned"
I've scrolled down and there are several others marked with similar. I have an awful lot of stuff in there, but from a quick glance they go back to Jan,
If I ever have time it would be interesting to go through some of them ...
... but mystery solved re the God trigger. "Me legs are". Now imagine someone in pain screaming that and why she responded "I'm sorry, I don't know how to help you with that"
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"Me legs are" sounds a lot like "Aleksa" when said reasonably fast, maybe that accounts for the false positive?
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My friend is trying to listen to Metro Radio on a Dot but keeps getting the wrong station on Tune In. Is there any way to try and get the right station?