Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Adam86 on February 14, 2018, 01:13:23 PM
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Good afternoon all,
I wondered if any of the pros around here could advise on if there would be any big impact if i was to get an extra line fitted into my house with another FTTC service? I.E would the current line thats installed clash with the new line in terms of noise interference thus reducing any sync speeds due to more crosstalk?
A short back story is that I used to be on a 100mbit Virgin service about 5 years ago, but after having no end of issues I cancelled and moved to FTTC and I used to get the full 80/20 service but obviously over the years that has now dropped to approx 65 down (which yes I know is still pretty decent). I am connected to an ECI cabinet so I'm aware of all the issues that we have had with them and now know in the last couple of weeks it does appear Openreach are now going ahead with the G.INP and 3DB profiles which will hopefully bring some speed back that was lost. My MDWS username is Adam1986 if anyone wants to check out the stats of my line.
The router I have runs LEDE/OpenWRT, so therefore I can use mwan3 to load balance two WAN connections together and I have successfully tested this out by taking Virgin's 50mbit service as a 14 day trial as I wouldnt want to go to the length of having a new phone line fitted to potentially find this didnt work, given that I have cable coming into the property. The majority of the downloading that I do uses multiple connection streams therefore the load balancing has worked perfectly and I'm pretty impressed. However, I have no confidence in Virgin given all the issues I had and the latency on the connection is awful. If I commit to a contract, it's going to cost £33 a month and I can get FTTC for cheaper.
I spoke with my current provider Plusnet, who said that to have an additional line installed is £50 which I think is acceptable. They have also confirmed that there are two spare pairs available. Given that G.FAST doesn't have any national rollout yet and the costs of that service is £60 a month in its pilot phase, I'd probably be pretty happy paying that sort of price for two FTTC lines with around 150mbits throughput (maybe a little more once 3db profiles are rolled out).
I know some people will say that the speed i have now is completely acceptable, but we are a household with a very busy connection so more speed would be apprecriated.
Cheers
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Nobody knows unfortunately.
I have had two lines in the past and they had zero impact on each other, but crosstalk depends on how close the lines are all the way back to the cabinet.
There is even the possibility that the 2nd line will run faster if the pair doesn’t have have as much crosstalk.
Personally I’d go for it and hope to come out with 120mbps initially until g.inp kicks in.
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My brother had two lines for a short while and there was no impact. I'm sure there was a recent thread on here, and the general consensus was that it didn't usually make much difference.
The pairs are side by side in the drop wire which is relatively short compared to the rest of the distance back to the cab, of course there is a small chance you end up with both pairs running close together all the way back to the PCP.
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I wondered if any of the pros around here could advise on if there would be any big impact if i was to get an extra line fitted into my house with another FTTC service? I.E would the current line thats installed clash with the new line in terms of noise interference thus reducing any sync speeds due to more crosstalk?
When I installed my second line it cut the sync speed on the first line from 72Mbps to 63Mbps. I'm also on an ECI cabinet. When G.INP was briefly enabled on the CAB it went back up to 72Mbps... The line continues to be on Fast Path which was ultra important for me.
The second line travels over a longer route so only syncs at about 55Mbps but it has G.INP enabled so is able to sync at about 62Mbps.
My downloads are pretty quick, about 120 Mbps depending on who's sending the data. I have different suppliers for the lines which was nice when one went down a few months back, I didn't notice it but for the error logs and errors on BT's pages. I'd be reluctant to give my setup up now as it works really well.
Tim
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From experience, having a second line installed has had no noticeable impact on sync speed, nor has it made any difference to the attainable, SNRM and reliability of the first line that I can see. I am on a Huawei cabinet, and the first line has G.INP and syncs at a solid 79,999/19,999 Kbps with a typical margin a smidge under 5 dB. That was pretty much the same before the installation.
Of course, it is one of these "if you don't try, you'll never know" things and I can confirm I shared your concerns up until install. In any case, like others have said, it depends on how much in close proximity they running of each other. I would be surprised if it made any difference, but do bear in mind the factors.
It looks like you current line is stable enough and you are on the Speed DLM profile (with Plusnet) with a good MTBE value so as soon as 3 dB becomes available we should see the DLM adjust the parameters to give you a reasonable boost if you are still within the thresholds.
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Short answer, you won't know till you try.
Crosstalk is a lottery.
I've seen lines where the 2nd pair sharing a drop wire knocked 20Mb off the 1st.
I've seen many more times where the 2nd line has had no impact on the 1st.
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Cheers all for the most helpful responses. This is something I will probably go ahead with and do over the next few weeks, unless Virgin come back with some outstanding offer to stay with them for 12 months but I doubt it. It would probably be my luck that I'd hit a lot of crosstalk! If it had such a negative affect, would the downstream handback threshold kick in or would it be a case of its through my own doing taking two lines into the property?
It does make sense to have two different service providers as you say shadow4dog as then I suppose the only point of failure is physical factors like the cabinet or something going on down at the exchange. I only contacted Plusnet with them being my current supplier and I thought £50 for a new line install seemed pretty cheap, unless anyone knows of anywhere else to get one installed for a decent price?
Also what are you using to load balance your two connections? MWAN3 on LEDE seems to really do the job and was very simple to setup and the rules are easy to create as well.
Cheers
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I would imagine that all existing estimates that were presented to you as of when you signed up to your ISP would be valid, including the handback. I don't see how activating a second line at the property would invalidate your handback speed, but I would say that those speeds on the DSL checker, including the handback speed, are always adjustmented based on data collected anyway. I could be wrong, but it would be safe to assume that this is correct unless anyone here has experienced the contrary.
£50 is pretty cheap for a brand new line being fitted. Some providers may absorb or reduce the cost of a new line installation if you take out a lenghty contract with them, and it looks like Plusnet are doing just that. CIX (https://cix.uk (https://cix.uk)) seem to have free line installation when you take line rental with them but of course this comes with a 12 month contract. Other than that, some providers may charge in excess of £100 for a physical line to be installed (I know https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/ (https://pulse8broadband.co.uk/) charge £129.00 for that, but the bonus of this provider is that it is only a 1 month contract with no cease fees).
I would recommend perhaps looking at a different provider using a different backhaul if you are looking for realibility (since Plusnet use BTW, perhaps look at a provider using TTB).
DISCLAIMER: Just because I have mentioned providers in this post, it does not imply that I recommend or am affiliated with them in any way, shape or form.
[Moderator edited to fix a typo.]
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Well I've decided to bite the bullet and get it ordered.
I found Vodafone Broadband 78 for £24 via uSwitch, charging £60 for the line installation. Have read some good things about them and also some bad but you get that with all ISP's I guess.
I also spoke with Plusnet and renewed my contract with them, originally they were knocking 2p off but once I pointed out Vodafone's price they said they couldnt meet the uSwitch deal, but they could do it at £27 per month which is the price Vodafone are charging direct on their site.
Both are 18 month contracts and I think £51 a month is quite acceptable given G.FAST prices start at £55 per month for 160mbit speeds.
I know you guys say crosstalk is a lottery and it all depends on the route the pairs take but can there be any major difference in underground cables as opposed to overground? as the majority of my area is UG.
Cheers
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I haven't used Vodafone before personally in terms of Broadband, but I have heard interesting stuff about their support and service quality. ::) Then again, when it comes to budget ISPs it is truly a race to the bottom (or in other words, the main providers compete in a way which reduces the quality of their service) to provide the lowest costs overall by skimping on decent support and backhaul for their customers. You may be fine with what you intend for your connection, but I would steer clear of them.
Being underground should mean that there is less impact from sources above the ground for the duration of the run underground (especially higher frequencies, which would have more trouble penetrating concrete). There may be other factors, but perhaps an engineer or someone in the know could shed some light on the copper gauging in relation to UG and OH cabling. :)
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Also what are you using to load balance your two connections? MWAN3 on LEDE seems to really do the job and was very simple to setup and the rules are easy to create as well.
I use a router running pfsense, but have used others from Netgear and TP-Link. I mainly moved to the pfsense router because it supports IPV6 which is something that's important to me.
My connections are also UG and I share the issues with Vodafone, looking in the forums from customers who are having issues with peak time speed!
Good luck!
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Hmm yes it does seem a lot of people are saying there are congestion issues on their network at the minute but just didn't know if it was the usual thing of people with problems having negative things to say and those who are working fine not commenting on the service.
Shadow4dog, how bad is your Vodafone service though? Is it only an issue for certain parts of the day or pretty much constantly? It's certainly making me reconsider the options again now tbh.
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@Adam86
I think Vodafone do have some issues, but how much an individual user may be impacted will vary from case to case. See my reply to your question here. (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20924.msg,365424.html)
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Hmm yes it does seem a lot of people are saying there are congestion issues on their network at the minute but just didn't know if it was the usual thing of people with problems having negative things to say and those who are working fine not commenting on the service.
I do understand the psychology behind people complaining more rather than complimenting. ;) But at the end of the day, you get what you pay for!
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I do understand the psychology behind people complaining more rather than complimenting. ;) But at the end of the day, you get what you pay for!
Couldn't agree more, I might have another look at the options on Monday as obviously can cancel the order with no penalty. But as others have said, for my intended purpose it might not matter quite as much. MWAN3 default config is a 60/40 balanced split on WAN1/WAN2, WAN1 will always be my Plusnet service as that has always been rock solid for me, just as good as when I had BT Infinity and I know a lot of people complain about Plusnet.
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Hmm, I think I might have a problem when it comes to getting the 2nd line installed. Had a nosy at the terminal box (or whatever the correct name is) inbetween the neighbours and our house seeing as the cover is broken and secured with tape.
The main cable coming from underground does not appear to have any spare pairs. Don't know how a new cable would be ran? Don't know if it makes any difference but almost in line with this terminal is a duct between the two properties on the pavement.
See attached pictures.
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They will simply feed a new drop wire from the nearest Distribution point. Not a problem.
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They will simply feed a new drop wire from the nearest Distribution point. Not a problem.
Cool, just wasn't sure with the current wire going under the slab. No idea where the other end is or how they'd feed it lol
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It won't be a dropwire they use to provide extra 'pairs' ..... duct will be run from the rectangular iron lid (JB23) in your photo, to where the black circular box is. A cable will then be pulled through the duct and the black box replaced by a grey BT66 box.
At the moment, the 'feed' cable is 'DIG' (Direct In Ground armoured cable), and as such is not routed through duct.
The duct track appears to be Virgin Media, it is definitely not Openreach.
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It won't be a dropwire they use to provide extra 'pairs' ..... duct will be run from the rectangular iron lid (JB23) in your photo, to where the black circular box is. A cable will then be pulled through the duct and the black box replaced by a grey BT66 box.
At the moment, the 'feed' cable is 'DIG' (Direct In Ground armoured cable), and as such is not routed through duct.
The duct track appears to be Virgin Media, it is definitely not Openreach.
OK that does makes some more sense, will be interesting to see this work take place as I'm really not sure myself how a duct would run from the rectangular lid to the current circular box due to walls and stuff and the properties being slightly lower than the paths etc. This sort of thing is not something I get to see so I could just be looking at it too much! Is this all something the engineer will be able to do when he comes out in one visit? or is it going to be one of these jobs where it will need a revisit to actually carry out any of the work?
Yes the triangular points on the ground are Virgin Media's cabling ducts, would rather have a reliable service than take their services on ;-)
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Engineers don't perform civil works anymore, haven't done for over 25+ yrs apart from the odd job by our 'Soft Dig' teams ....
The way it would usually work is:
You raise an order with your ISP/CP ..... we then turn up at the appointed date and time .... realisation sinks in that there is a 'Plant shortfall' on your underground feed ..... agreement is reached between yourself and the on-site engineer on the best/most aesthetic method of digging and providing duct-work to your premises (if it's private property) ....... an 'A55' (Diagram of route to be taken for duct-work and written description) is input for our contractors to perform said work ....... remedial duct-work is performed by the contractor ....... the engineer re-visits site to a) pull in a larger cable through the new duct and terminate at both ends, and b) Install the new wire to where your new socket is to be sited.
Now, there are slight variations on the above practice, and those will be subject to local working practices. I can't cover every single eventuality .... but the above is pretty much what will happen.
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Black Sheep, your explanation is very in depth and I understand so thanks for taking the time to clarify everything.
At least now on Tuesday I know what the situation will be. Is this done at any extra cost or is the cost usually absorbed?
Thanks
Adam
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Won't cost you or the ISP a penny more .... all absorbed by Openreach.
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Won't cost you or the ISP a penny more .... all absorbed by Openreach.
Thats a relief :-) Well hopefully there is a easy enough route for new cabling to be done via. Is there usually a long lead time for these pieces of work to be carried out?
Cheers
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OK Openreach came this morning to the house but things all feel a bit confusing and now I'm a bit miffed and not too sure what direction this is could go in.
Nice lad came from Openreach, and as you said would happen he spotted straight away that there was no spare pair in the feed cable. He said that a new feed cable would need supplying from the box just outside on the pavement and that it wasnt too much major work as the pavement is higher than the flowerbed in front of our garden and its only around 4 metres distance, meaning that whoever does the work wouldnt have to dig deep to get the cable though. He said they would probably just duct up to the wall beneath at the top of the flower bed and then cable tap the new cable along side the party wall and then onto our wall - or alternatively dig the cable into the ground along side the edge of the flower bed and then bring it back up. He said the job would be done neatly and to a decent standard. Usually a 7 day lead time for these kind of things but can take longer.
He said that he would proceed to get the new socket fitted and cabled up to the spare pair that runs to the black box from my main socket. He then said he would start work at the JB23 to find a spare pair that can be used and said he would approx be one hour as he would have to head down the road - pressumably down to the cabinet. After 20 minutes he came and knocked on the door and said the situation wasn't looking too good as further down the street where the pairs connect to, there was only 10 available pairs and all were in use. Work would need to be done to add extra pairs and this could end up being chargeable to me as I already have a line in place to the property anyway. He said it would be subject to a survey and the decision would be made from there and I would have the choice to either accept or decline if there was a cost.
He left to do everything else he could do and about 30 minutes later i saw him down towards the end of the street at the other side of the road with the cover up there, so went for a little nosy, he was using something on my side of the street with what looked like a large magic wand (lol) and it was beeping away. He said that he had identified that the cabling goes under the road to the cover but at this point on my side there was no cover to access the cabling (or pairs??), therefore they would have to dig this section up to work on it. He then went on to say that this is now Openreachs responsibility as it is down to how they built this section of the network many years ago and I should not have to worry about any of this cost anymore.
He said the only thing that might come into question would be paying for the work to be done from the JB23 to my property, but he doubts it as its a very small piece of work to do with minimal digging and he said technically I dont have my own feed and have stolen my neighbours spare pair as the feed is clearly on their property and that it would be a bit tight to expect me to pay as I could argue that officially I don't have my own line. He said a surveyor should come out relatively quickly but probably won't even come speak to me or call me unless they want to charge.
So it looks like it could be a bit of a waiting game now and I could have misunderstood a lot of this and I know I've probably gone on a little bit in this reply but maybe I've got nothing to worry about.
He also changed the faceplate on my current line to the latest revision which is quite interesting really as thats knocked 3mbit off my attainable sync just doing that!
Regards
Adam
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Hmm . . . Interesting developments but I feel that I should wait for Black Sheep to make his comments based on your report.
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Firstly, I would make comment that you've had a bl00dy decent engineer visit you, from the sound of the work he did.
Now then, charging is (as in any business) a big thing, and we have a duty to do so if it is warranted.
The fact that the 'feed box', (We'll call it a BT99, as that is how it is commonly referred to on various job templates), is on the neighbours premises, isn't all that unusual on estates built around the 60/70's ....... we have many similar set-ups on my patch.
I suppose it was a flip of a coin as to which side the dual-feed BT99 was positioned back in the day, it could as easily have been on your premises ??.
I have to admit, I am not au-fait whatsoever with the charging policies of 2nd lines these days ..... there is certainly a ceiling as to how much OR will throw at a 2nd line install, and the figure going around my head is £1K ?? Please don't take that as gospel.
The problem as I see it, isn't the remedial work from the kerb to the premises ( ie: from the JB23 to the BT99, or JB23 to where the newer style BT66 might go ??) .... the issue is the shortfall of 'pairs' further back the 'spine cable' !!
The 'magic wand' he was using is a 'Cat & Genny' ... basically a tool used to trace where our cables run. He must have identified 'spare pairs' or 'stumped pairs' that are measuring to a buried joint (BJ) under the tarmac you mentioned.
Once this has been dug up, it will become clearer as to whether another 'pair' (ie: your 2nd line) can be pushed along towards the JB23 ??
If this can be done, I'll put my neck on the line and hazard a guess that all the rest of the work would be soaked up by your ISP/OR ??.
If it proves otherwise ... then from your description above, it would then mean a new length of duct from the BJ all the way to your premises, to provide the 2nd line.
This is where potential charges may apply ??
Alas, it's purely pie-in-the-sky speculation for the most part, as until the BJ is excavated we won't know what is or isn't achievable ??!!.
Fingers crossed the new 'pair' can be pushed all the way to the JB23 !!! :)
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The engineer was great I thought, he came across as really passionate about his job and also seemed really clued up about the whole area and he was quite interested when I was telling him that I was intending on load balancing the two connections to gain more throughput rather than shunning it off like I'd expect some people would do and ask why the hell you are going to that extreme when you already have a line in place!
Your explanation does clarify the situation a lot clearer, he definitely referenced it being a buried joint and that it needed investigating. Thats when however he seemed to say it could be a bit of a game changer for my situation as it is down to Openreach for originally doing a buried joint in the first place. He said that if at some point in the future they decided to to FTTP on the street then this work would need doing anyway. So if another pair is available, when you say "pushed" is that using special tools or could the case be that the path needs digging up along to the JB23 outside my premises?
He did also mention he recalled the figure is around £1000 as well.
Once again cheers for responding Black Sheep, your responses are most helpful and its nice that people can take the time to provide input into these situations.
I shall keep you informed of progress, he said that the surveys are usually done fairly quickly.
Adam
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Thank you, B*Sheep, for your interpretation and explanation. It was most useful and interesting to read. :)
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Most welcome, sir. :)
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Your explanation does clarify the situation a lot clearer, he definitely referenced it being a buried joint and that it needed investigating. Thats when however he seemed to say it could be a bit of a game changer for my situation as it is down to Openreach for originally doing a buried joint in the first place. He said that if at some point in the future they decided to to FTTP on the street then this work would need doing anyway. So if another pair is available, when you say "pushed" is that using special tools or could the case be that the path needs digging up along to the JB23 outside my premises?
He did also mention he recalled the figure is around £1000 as well.
Adam
No problem at all, Adam .... like all folk on kitz we're happy to assist where possible. :)
Just for info purposes, your engineer is correct in as much as 'back in't day' on the up-coming estates the preferred method was to lie the cables DIG (Direct In Ground), as opposed to laying duct and then pulling the cables in later.
As a result, the 'spine cable' would be quite large at one end of the estate where its journey begins, ( usually 75 or 100 pair), and as it continues its journey it would become decreasingly smaller as there would be a BJ (affectionately know as a 'submarine joint', as it vaguely resembles the sea-going vessel) outside each premises, where a 'pair' would be 'dropped off' to feed each individual house.
In your case, two 'pairs' are being dropped off to feed you and your neighbour.
So, with all things being equal, there has to be an 'end' to the 'spine' and this is when shortfalls of 'pairs' become more prevalent.
By 'pushing a pair', I mean there may be two spine cables in the BJ that's being excavated that may have spare capacity, this would enable a 'spare pair' to be connected to the cable going on towards the JB23 outside your house .... affectionately termed, 'pushing a pair'. No fancy tools or work is required.
:)
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Little update, nothing major but thought I'd keep you guys informed.
Yesterday a surveyor turned up and measured up for the the job to arrange the running of a new cable from the DP to the wall. Took a couple of pictures as well and had me sign a form. He said it was nothing of a job with approx 3m soft dig, tiny amount of pavement to dig next to the JB23 and that the contractors would be fighting over the job. He said he was going to submit the information and notice needs putting into the council as well for the pavement dig. He seemed to think there would be absolutely no issue with any costing and again mentioned the £1000 limit and that it should be well within that. He said he would be recommending an armored cable for this job and that it will just be buried around the edge of the flowerbed and brought along to the wall.
I asked him about the so call buried joint further down the road that was a bigger issue and he said that wasn't anything to do with what he had come out for, however his notes were not particularly clear but apparantly a spare pair has been "diverted" for me so he doesnt think it is an issue now. He said once this new cable is laid, when the engineer comes to finish the job, if there is indeed still an issue still then it is up to them to follow it through and that he believed it would be at the expense of Openreach and not myself.
This afternoon, someone else from Openreach came and again he said that the notes he had been given were very poor but he was coming to look at the job properly. He mentioned about this diverted pair that had been arranged again, which is apparantly across the other side of the road and he was working out the best way to get it across as the buried joint sits along someones driveway and isn't ideal to dig up. Apparantly though closer our house, there is another DP and a DP opposite fairly adjacent to each other and he says they will have to dig up a section of the road and connect the two together. Also he mentioned the opposite side has a lot of new ducting in place due to issues in the past. He said OR will need to get planning permission though so it's probably going to at least be a few weeks to progress!
Sounds like I am causing a bit of trouble in the neighbourhood :blush:, but it does sound like it is going in the right direction and it's just going to take some time to get sorted?
Cheers
Adam
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Progress is occurring, so that's something positive. Hopefully everything will just fall into place and the job will be successful.
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Progress has been made today, I now have a new drop wire to my wall!
Luckily I was working from home today and some contractors turned up. Felt like it was going to start a bit awry at first as they said they would have to dig the flowerbed and flowers up as their job said to lay new a new duct! I said my wife would kill me and that the surveyor was recommending to lay an armoured cable so it could just lightly sit beneath the soil with the least disruption. Anyhow he went on the phone to someone and came back off and said not a problem for the armoured cable and it makes the job better for them.
Just the pair situation to resolve now :-)
Adam
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Had a call from someone within Openreach at lunchtime and he said that a design had been submitted to bring additional capacity onto this side of the street but would take more time to carry out and therefore another option had become available in the meantime as a line had been ceased a couple of doors down (tennants moved out) and the plan was to "steal" the pair in the mean time whilst this work is to be done (he said it has to be done regardless).
Funnily enough I got home and not long after an Openreach van parked up, he came to speak to me and said he wasn't sure why he had been sent back out as the remedial work hadnt been done. I explained to him what I was told on the phone and he said he would take a look into it although he wasn't entirely happy at doing this as he said most likely Openreach in there infinite wisdom would probably not add any extra pairs if this job is shut off leaving new tennants without service if they tried taking a phone line out.
Anyhow, it was true that the line was ceased, but he mentioned something about this pair and the one that connects the neighbours being a split pair and therefore not ideal for broadband services, but said he would try it anyway. Plugged my gear in and it just kept resyncing constantly, the highest I saw it was 50mbit and the lowest was 18mbit. He said he wasnt a broadband engineer and couldnt diagnose it further but suspects it was down to the pair being split so he went onto disconnect it again so he can close off the job as me still not having any service.
Looks like it's going to be another waiting game again now.
Adam
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Hmm . . . Split legs of a pair is a definite "No" in broadband terms and are not ideal for telephony. (In the latter case, it is a bit of a botch.)
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Hmm . . . Split legs of a pair is a definite "No" in broadband terms and are not ideal for telephony. (In the latter case, it is a bit of a botch.)
Sounds like the engineer did the right thing by recommending to disconnect this and mark the job as me still having no service. From what I could understand, he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?
Adam
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. . . he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?
Yes, that makes perfect sense.
Even if he could gain access to the "other end", its likely that there would be nothing he could do . . . as one wire of pair-X and one wire of pair-Y would probably have been damaged. So, at sometime in the past, to make a (sort of) working circuit for a telephony service the undamaged wires from pair-X and pair-Y have been used. The AC balance for such a circuit would be poor and totally unacceptable for a broadband service.
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Civils have been on the street for most of the day today and have now put new ducting in from the JB23 at my neighbours to the buried joint ready for Openreach to pull new cable through.
He said it will remain a buried joint as its too deep to pull out and place into a chamber and there isnt enough slack on the cable. When I had a peak all I could see was what looked to be an iron looking pipe that goes under the road in the direction to the larger chamber, looks like a hole into it had been smashed with the digger (intentionally?). My presumption is that cable will be fed through the new ducting and then rods will be used to feed this through under the road and into the chamber and connected up there.
One of the guys said its only a 3 day permit, so Openreach will do their work tomorrow and they will come back to finish the civils work off.
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My presumption is that cable will be fed through the new ducting and then rods will be used to feed this through under the road and into the chamber and connected up there.
If I understand and interpret things correctly, there won't be a buried joint for your new pair. Just a contiguous length of cable from the JB23 to the joint in the chamber on the other side of the road. (Is it a chamber or just a joint box? How does it compare to the size of a human being? If it's large enough for someone to get into and the lid can be shut, then it's a chamber. Otherwise it's a joint box.)
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If I understand and interpret things correctly, there won't be a buried joint for your new pair. Just a contiguous length of cable from the JB23 to the joint in the chamber on the other side of the road. (Is it a chamber or just a joint box? How does it compare to the size of a human being? If it's large enough for someone to get into and the lid can be shut, then it's a chamber. Otherwise it's a joint box.)
It may very well be a joint box, there's actually two near each other at the other side of the road and i think this terminates to the one with two covers.
I'll double check later when I go out for a walk.
I'm guessing that the cable between the JB23 near me and wherever it terminates to will have multiple pairs within it, wonder if it might be feasible/good idea to see if they will move my first line over to that as well, I'll have a segment of cable all to myself then as I can't see anyone else nearby needing any lift and shift work done I guess...I think i've got a couple of pesky crosstalkers quite near me. Mind you, it might not help really. I got 6mbit sync back with having the new drop wire installed and seperated from my next door neighbour.
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I'm guessing that the cable between the JB23 near me and wherever it terminates to will have multiple pairs within it, wonder if it might be feasible/good idea to see if they will move my first line over to that as well, I'll have a segment of cable all to myself then as I can't see anyone else nearby needing any lift and shift work done I guess...I think i've got a couple of pesky crosstalkers quite near me.
I was wondering if that might be a possibility.
I got 6mbit sync back with having the new drop wire installed and seperated from my next door neighbour.
The pesky b*cat is in pedantic mode . . . Hopefully that was 6 Mbps and with an underground feed there is no "drop wire" just a service feed. ;)
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Sounds like the engineer did the right thing by recommending to disconnect this and mark the job as me still having no service. From what I could understand, he said the other end of the pair that are split are within the buried joint so he simply couldn't sort it out - would that make sense?
Adam
agreed he wanted things done right
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Well on Tuesday the cable was pulled through and my 2nd line is now sucessfully installed! The cable pull was around 35 metres and this is a 20 pair cable between the two joints.
The guy from OR also connected my original line to this new cable segment as well (at first he wasn't going to but then said he might as well put the new cable to use), one on the first pair and the other on the last pair so they dont run directly alongside each other as such.
Interestingly enough, if the modem for the 2nd line is powered off, my 1st line syncs up at 78Mbps, it just shows the effect of crosstalk from my immediate neighbours I guess. As soon as the modem for the 2nd line is powered on and synced up, the 1st line drops to 68Mbps attainable sync. So far I've only seen the 2nd line sync up at 70Mbps maximum, I am guessing that the 2nd line routes to the cabinet differently as opposed to the 1st one so must be picking up some crosstalk. Theres also probably roughly 10 metres between the neighbours joint and mine, so I'm guessing the pairs must be along side each other and that might be the explanation of the sudden loss in the attainable on the 1st line?
Both lines with load balancing using mwan3 on LEDE/OpenWRT and I am getting approx 125Mbps download and roughly 36Mbps upload.
Whats the best way to export some stats in DSLStats now for you guys to see how the lines are looking?
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Thank you for that update. I think we can say that your new circuit install was a success. :)
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So at 1am this morning my 1st line resynced with interleaving applied. Yesterday morning, I did hard wire the RJ11 cables into each master socket so the cable wasn't protruding out, each sync remained fairly consistant so I don't think it is anything to do with that.
Could it be that there have been too many errors over a period of time whilst the modem has been synced up at higher speed with the lower SNR whilst the 2nd line has been sycned?
Hopefully interleaving will get removed again at some point?
1st Line:
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24886 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73868 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64449 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.2 9.1
Attn(dB): 17.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 6.7 6.7
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 150
B: 51 236
M: 1 1
T: 64 5
R: 12 16
S: 0.0257 0.3771
L: 19944 5410
D: 1261 1
I: 64 255
N: 64 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 34886231 1177405
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 340786831 475949
RSCorr: 26056 4
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2835920762 0
Data Cells: 260902218 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 1140 1
SES: 11 0
UAS: 65 54
AS: 57544
Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 1.64 6.15
OR: 116.40 202.87
AgR: 64565.78 20203.27
Bitswap: 674/674 4/4
Total time = 1 days 5 hours 3 min 12 sec
FEC: 26056 4
CRC: 0 0
ES: 1140 1
SES: 11 0
UAS: 65 54
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 8 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 12 sec
FEC: 4 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 3 min 12 sec
FEC: 8052 1
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 18004 3
CRC: 0 0
ES: 1140 1
SES: 11 0
UAS: 65 54
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 8 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 15 hours 59 min 3 sec
FEC: 26056 4
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#
2nd Line:
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 24589 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67436 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67437 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.2 9.1
Attn(dB): 16.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 150
B: 239 236
M: 1 1
T: 21 5
R: 0 16
S: 0.1133 0.3771
L: 16952 5410
D: 1 1
I: 240 255
N: 240 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 58523749 676561
OHFErr: 2830 89
RS: 0 3588779
RSCorr: 0 820
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 1626 0
OCD: 44 0
LCD: 44 0
Total Cells: 700558769 0
Data Cells: 362677690 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 482 49
SES: 0 8
UAS: 27 3831063
AS: 104808
Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 1.79 6.15
OR: 107.21 202.87
AgR: 67544.15 20203.27
Bitswap: 41736/41736 19/19
Total time = 1 days 5 hours 7 min 15 sec
FEC: 0 820
CRC: 2830 89
ES: 482 49
SES: 0 8
UAS: 27 3831063
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 15 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 7 min 15 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 19 0
ES: 17 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 820
CRC: 2811 89
ES: 465 49
SES: 0 8
UAS: 27 3831063
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 days 5 hours 6 min 47 sec
FEC: 0 820
CRC: 2830 89
ES: 482 49
SES: 0 8
UAS: 0 3831036
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#