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Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: burakkucat on February 03, 2018, 12:25:39 AM

Title: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on February 03, 2018, 12:25:39 AM
I wonder if Weaver is one of the "select customers" of A&A?

The soul of a new machine (http://www.revk.uk/2018/02/the-soul-of-new-machine.html).

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rIZkSakJzHc/WnSsyiYetXI/AAAAAAAAGo8/vBiq-KU7Qvc5fBHymn7ULRXqz98IJNT4wCLcBGAs/s320/AK1L0153.jpg)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 04, 2018, 04:05:23 PM
Apologies for bringing up an old topic perhaps, but I'm waiting to get my hands on one of these. Reason being line bonding, sadly the EdgeRouter Pro 8 is doing some weird stuff with single threaded downloading. I can max out the downstream on both connections if I do a multithreaded download or speed test, but a single threaded download barely holds at 6 megabits out of a current potential of 100-120 megabits.

Here's an example, though I know my connections can do better (just did it quickly after trying teql on the EdgeRouter Pro 8).

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/7194927822.png)

Upstream wasn't bonded, just downstream.

I'm not going to bother with the FB2700 for at least two reasons, most importantly because it will soon be a discontinued product in the next week or two (so I'm told).
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 04, 2018, 06:32:09 PM
I will be interested to read of your experiences, once you take possession of a FB2900.

(I say that as an owner of a second generation Firebrick, a FB105, which is occasionally used for one of its features.)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 05, 2018, 01:32:01 PM
I will be interested to read of your experiences, once you take possession of a FB2900.

(I say that as an owner of a second generation Firebrick, a FB105, which is occasionally used for one of its features.)

Sadly I was unsuccessful in asking if I could order a 'pre-release' version, sales eventually got back to me stating that it's not ready for release and will be released 'within the next few weeks'. However on good news I've at least resolved the slow single threaded downstream speed I was suffering with while the two lines were bonded. The problem was caused by the fact one line was on the old TTB network and the other line was on the new TTB network, once both lines were on the new TTB network I'm now getting full single threaded downstream speed.

The only other anomaly I'm facing is why my first line appears to be banded by DLM at 40 megabits since after the engineer activated the second line. It definitely has spare SNRM. But as I've said to AAISP, I'm not worried about that problem until I'm able to get the FB2900 or alternatively if I manage to figure out how to get upstream bonding to work on the EdgeRouter Pro 8 too (it currently only uses one line for upstream).

(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/button/1522931336248624055.png)

As you can see, it takes a brief moment for the downstream bonding to kick in for a single threaded download. It's nice, more so if I can get the first line's downstream banding by DLM put back to up to 80 megabits (should ideally achieve around 60 or so if it wasn't banded). Once I get the FB2900 I'll post results here, hopefully by then the 40 megabits banding will be gone too.

Nice ping too.

Code: [Select]
PING 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=1 ttl=61 time=5.72 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=2 ttl=61 time=5.07 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=3 ttl=61 time=5.23 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=4 ttl=61 time=5.45 ms
64 bytes from 8.8.8.8: icmp_req=5 ttl=61 time=5.82 ms
^C
--- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4005ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.078/5.464/5.825/0.290 ms
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 05, 2018, 05:27:06 PM
Ah, I see.  :(  However without asking you would have never known if you could have had a pre-release FB2900 version to test.  :)

Thank you for the latest update. I am surprised that the EdgeRouter Pro 8 is proving difficult to configure so that the two US streams are bonded. Have Ubiquiti offered any suggestions?
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 05, 2018, 05:34:09 PM
Ah, I see.  :(  However without asking you would have never known if you could have had a pre-release FB2900 version to test.  :)

Thank you for the latest update. I am surprised that the EdgeRouter Pro 8 is proving difficult to configure so that the two US streams are bonded. Have Ubiquiti offered any suggestions?

I've tried their forum and someone called AndyWrightUK suggested the teql method, which is almost identical to what's on AAISP's wiki ( https://support.aa.net.uk/Linux_upload_bonding_using_teql ). This at least allows the internet connection to work when two lines are connected and downstream bonding works fine. From that article and from what I understand about teql I would've thought it should do upstream too now. I've not tried contacting Ubiquiti directly to see if they can offer any insight or support on this matter, but I think I'll try that tomorrow. Worst case is they say they can't help me with the subject or that I need to pay them to investigate a solution perhaps.

There is another option on AAISP's website, that's policy based routing. It's more complicated than doing it via teql however. I also tried Microtik's RouterOS on a virtual machine (CHR), however I only managed to get that working once last night and since then it's dead when I last tested it. The Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8 is easier for me, perhaps because I'm used to it now. If I can get upstream bonding working then I won't need to buy the FB2900, there would be literally no point.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 06, 2018, 12:05:44 AM
Woohoo, I fixed it! Turns out teql wasn't actually, well, running?

modprobe sch_teql

The script now does that first. I discovered this when I tried entering the individual commands manually.

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/7202947527.png)

A single threaded upload test sort of appears to max out a line, but I presume that's normal. I'll probably ask on the AAISP IRC tomorrow just to see what others who have bonding usually experience. The downside to using teql is that it appears to break the EdgeRouter's ability to access the internet itself, therefore LAN IP's are now having to be routed through my Amplifi HD which I'm fine with (previously it was in bridge mode, not acting as a router).

(http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/31795055.png)

Checking the EdgeRouter Pro 8 dashboard, on a single threaded upload speed test it appears to use one line then swap to the other. Probably just the way teql works and most probably a Firebrick is better at this.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 06, 2018, 12:16:00 AM
modprobe sch_teql

A necessary prerequisite!  :D

So I strongly suspect that you will not be purchasing a FB2900.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 06, 2018, 12:32:11 AM
A necessary prerequisite!  :D

So I strongly suspect that you will not be purchasing a FB2900.

Haha yes. However I still believe I'll be purchasing the FB2900. I have a hunch that it'll handle the upload bonding differently and better than just plain simple teql. It's also likely that LAN IP's can still be used at the same time on the Firebrick unlike my current setup. I also can't apply QoS without the teql setup breaking, so what I can do on the EdgeRouter is somewhat limited now that I have a form of bonding working. However as a temporary solution until the FB2900 is available, I'm fine with it.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: vic0239 on April 10, 2018, 02:06:06 PM
Just in on Firebrick-announce:

Quote
The FB2900 is now available from dealers.

Base model   £500+VAT
Fully loaded   £550+VAT
Rack mount kit   £35+VAT

The DC (12/24V and 48V) models will be available soon.

http://www.firebrick.co.uk/products_2900.php (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/products_2900.php)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 10, 2018, 06:23:29 PM
Just in on Firebrick-announce:

http://www.firebrick.co.uk/products_2900.php (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/products_2900.php)

Thank you for the link.  :)

I see that both the FB2500 and the FB2700 are no longer supplied, so I expect them to be moved into the Legacy Products section of the web-site in due course.

Being curious, I decided to download a copy of the FB2900 manual (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/manuals.php?PRODUCT=2900). However both the links are currently broken . . .  ::)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 10, 2018, 06:28:10 PM
I'll order one tomorrow if I can. Sales haven't alerted me that it's available to buy however, so maybe I can't get it from AAISP yet. I'll check out their website. At least it's a fair bit cheaper than the FB2700, which was 750+VAT if I recall (fully loaded), making it 900 in total. Where this one will be 660 (including VAT) for fully loaded I believe. I can reclaim VAT later on hehe.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 10, 2018, 07:15:14 PM
Both of the links to the manuals are now operational.  :)

FB2900 manual (PDF) (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/fbsoftware/2901/V1.47.000/FB2900/V1.47.000-2901-FB2900-Zander.pdf)
FB2900 manual (HTML) (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/fbsoftware/2901/V1.47.000/FB2900/V1.47.000-2901-FB2900-Zander-html/toc.html)

Edited to add a link to the Quick Start Guide (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/pdfs/quickstart-2900.pdf)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 10, 2018, 07:24:29 PM
Both of the links to the manuals are now operational.  :)

FB2900 manual (PDF) (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/fbsoftware/2901/V1.47.000/FB2900/V1.47.000-2901-FB2900-Zander.pdf)
FB2900 manual (HTML) (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/fbsoftware/2901/V1.47.000/FB2900/V1.47.000-2901-FB2900-Zander-html/toc.html)

Edited to add a link to the Quick Start Guide (http://www.firebrick.co.uk/pdfs/quickstart-2900.pdf)

Fancy, I can't wait to receive this impressive bit of kit :P. Hopefully I'll get mine on the 12th as I've ordered mine now, assuming plenty are in stock and actually now ready to send. It threw me for a moment as I was trying to find where to pay, but it turns out it'll take it via direct debit on seven day credit terms.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 10, 2018, 10:09:03 PM
Have you also ordered the rack-mount kit?  :-\

Once it has been installed I would appreciate an updated picture of your rack, please.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 10, 2018, 11:45:56 PM
Have you also ordered the rack-mount kit?  :-\

Once it has been installed I would appreciate an updated picture of your rack, please.

Yes, as I want to put it inside my cabinet. I'll upload a picture once it's done.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 10, 2018, 11:59:50 PM
Yes, as I want to put it inside my cabinet. I'll upload a picture once it's done.

Thank you. I always appreciate a good picture of networking equipment.  ;)
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 12, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Bad news, it's not arriving today like I thought. The delivery was delayed because the order was taking a payment via direct debit. Spoke to someone at AAISP and I've now sent AAISP a separate payment via bank transfer instead which I'm told will also cancel the pending direct debit payment.

I was also initially told that due to high demand there will be a delay on shipping, but since then I've now been told that once they see the manual payment I sent to their bank account some moments ago then it should be despatched later today for delivery tomorrow. One thing still slightly puzzles me, it says Royal Mail Tracked 48 (not 24?) and that is what I've now paid for, so perhaps they'll just do 24 anyway given the unfortunate misunderstanding with the order. It's all becoming slightly more confusing than it should've been.

Fingers crossed it arrives tomorrow!

EDIT: Got a tracking number now, I don't know if it's 24 or 48 hours though so I'll find out soon enough. If it's actually 48 hours then it will most likely turn up Monday or Tuesday of next week (sigh), but if it's 24 hours then it should arrive tomorrow (hopes!).

EDIT: It's Royal Mail Tracked 24, woohoo! Just waiting to see Royal Mail's tracking say that they have it, at the moment it still says "item expected".
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 13, 2018, 01:07:39 PM
It arrived about an hour ago and it appears to be all setup now. I thought it would be more difficult to configure but apparently it was quite easy, even the NAT side of things was easy (as I wanted LAN IP's and public static IP's to work on the same router, like on the EdgeRouter, which some routers can't do). Bonding works perfectly.

(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/button/1523620575758862255.png)

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/7224168342.png)

I'll post a written review and some pictures hopefully later today of it unboxed and then in the cabinet.

Ping is slightly higher as I'm on 5GHz wifi for the moment, only by possibly 2 milliseconds or so though.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Weaver on April 14, 2018, 06:19:57 PM
That is a lot cheaper then than my FB2700 and FB2500. I paid around £900 for a fully loaded FB2700 from AA, can't remember what the FB2500 cost.

Can't afford an FB2900 having spent £1350 on oriental kittens (truly) this year. In any event, even the fb2500 is more than fast enough for my low-speed DSL. The FB2500 is enjoying retirement although it was in use again for many months last year after a lightning strike.

FB2700 runs extremely hot. The cpu is not thrashing, checked. I hope they fix that with the new model, make sure to give it masses of ventilation. I now have mine mounted above a big hole so air can rise unimpeded from below and leave the top plate easily. Before I moved it, the FB2700 was on top of a switch, which was not hot, but presumably didn't help matters at all.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Ixel on April 16, 2018, 11:28:07 AM
That is a lot cheaper then than my FB2700 and FB2500. I paid around £900 for a fully loaded FB2700 from AA, can't remember what the FB2500 cost.

Can't afford an FB2900 having spent £1350 on oriental kittens (truly) this year. In any event, even the fb2500 is more than fast enough for my low-speed DSL. The FB2500 is enjoying retirement although it was in use again for many months last year after a lightning strike.

FB2700 runs extremely hot. The cpu is not thrashing, checked. I hope they fix that with the new model, make sure to give it masses of ventilation. I now have mine mounted above a big hole so air can rise unimpeded from below and leave the top plate easily. Before I moved it, the FB2700 was on top of a switch, which was not hot, but presumably didn't help matters at all.

I see. Yeah mine's fine, not getting warm to touch last I checked. PCB temperature averaging around 35C :).
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 16, 2018, 05:16:58 PM
I am rather unimpressed with the documentation. I stopped counting, at twenty, at the number typos, spelling and grammatical errors.

As for being a User Manual for the FB2900 it certainly is not.  :no:  It reads as a very tedious and poorly thought out lecture.

Very disappointing.  :(

[Edited to insert an "at" that had "got away"!]
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Weaver on April 17, 2018, 05:03:33 AM
@burakkucat - should let RevK know about docs. He's famously keen on ‘doing the right thing’. The docs for the FB2700 have a number of holes imho, places where more clarification would be helpful.
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Westie on April 17, 2018, 08:43:44 AM
I stopped counting, at twenty, the number typos, spelling and grammatical errors.

The pedant in me questions whether there is something odd about that sentence!  ;)

But I agree about the documentation; it appears not to have been proof-read at all. Unfortunately that then creates the impression that the quality of the device itself may also be lacking.

Edit: To correct my own typos!
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Weaver on April 17, 2018, 10:03:14 AM
A job for ideas.aa.net.uk ?
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: Westie on April 17, 2018, 12:14:21 PM
Done, although I doubt it will be followed up.  :(
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 17, 2018, 05:18:19 PM
The pedant in me questions whether there is something odd about that sentence!  ;)

Questioning should not be required. There is, clearly, something wrong in that sentence.  :paperbag:
Title: Re: Firebrick FB2900
Post by: burakkucat on April 17, 2018, 05:25:15 PM
@burakkucat - should let RevK know about docs. He's famously keen on ‘doing the right thing’.

Then perhaps he would care to employ me, to correct his mishaps!

I own a second generation Firebrick, a FB105, and the documentation for that device is also peppered with typos. Considering how old a design and how long ago it was when the FB105 was first made available to purchase, I would have thought that the documentation would have long been "fixed".