Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: tuk on December 11, 2017, 11:33:03 PM

Title: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 11, 2017, 11:33:03 PM
Want to make sure I'm buying the right bits and not missed anything----

---
Master socket, landline + router currently in living room.
Need to install 2nd landline + wired internet for 2 desktops in other room.
--

Broadband signal has never been great so want to create best signal path within the parameters.

Plan:
Replace master socket in living room.
Install extension in other room, about 8m run from ms.
Move router to other room + phone socket for 2nd landline.

Shopping list:
Master Socket, NTE5A.
Ext Socket, NTE5C MK4.

CW1308 or CAT5e?

Will the NTE5C MK4 really improve signal path for the extension over a plugin bb filter? .. the NTE5C MK4 is not cheap, I could just use 2 NTE5A + bb filter?


[Linked images removed at the request of the owner of those images]


Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: gt94sss2 on December 12, 2017, 12:33:17 AM
Shopping list:
Master Socket, NTE5A.
Ext Socket, NTE5C MK4.

Am not a wiring expert but I think both the NTE5A and NTE5C are both master sockets and you don't want more than one master on a line.. though am sure someone will point out what you actually need.

Apart from the fact, the public is not supposed to mess with master sockets have you considered using WiFi and a DECT phone instead?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: burakkucat on December 12, 2017, 01:00:21 AM
. . . I think both the NTE5A and NTE5C are both master sockets and you don't want more than one master on a line..

Absolutely correct.

I am struggling to fully understand what is required. The following is somewhat ambiguous --

Need to install 2nd landline + wired internet for 2 desktops in other room.

Do you mean that you are ordering a second telephone line? If yes, then Openreach will do all that is necessary. However if you mean that you would like to have an extension telephone in the other room then that can be a DIY task.

Let's step back a bit, so that we can fully see the current situation. As I understand it, the current master-socket is in room number one. What sort of master-socket is it? A LJU2/1A perhaps?

(http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/large/LJU2_1A_rear.jpg)

If you would please clarify the situation, we should be able to devise a plan of action for you to follow. At the moment, don't order anything.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 09:11:23 AM
Quote
Need to install 2nd landline + wired internet for 2 desktops in other room.

Basically I need to install an extension from the master socket to another room ...not a 2nd line.

The extension will allow the relocation of the router to other room.
The extension/router will provide wired internet for 2 desktops in other room.
The extension will provide a telephone socket for a 2nd wired telephone in other room.

I figured the NTE5C(master socket) would make a good extension box as it has the filter faceplate.

Also, I will be replacing the original mastersocket ...yes, I'm aware of the warnings!!!

I cant use cordless phone or wireless for the desktops, it has to be the requirements described above.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: jelv on December 12, 2017, 09:41:52 AM
Nooooooooooo!!!!!

You need a filtered faceplate on the existing master socket. On the back of that are connections for data. You will need to run TWO wires through, one for the data with a socket you can plug your router/modem straight in to without a filter and the second for a phone extension which again won't need a filter as it will be connected to the filtered side of the master socket.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: skyeci on December 12, 2017, 10:02:14 AM
I think given the more risk of losing some sync speed due to lengthening the line I would have just run cat5e from the current router to the room and put a switch on the end. you could then just use a phone extension lead for your phone etc.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 10:58:41 AM
You will need to run TWO wires through, one for the data with a socket you can plug your router/modem straight in to without a filter and the second for a phone extension

I would have just run cate5 from the current router to the room and put a switch on the end. you could then just use a phone extension lead for your phone etc.

This is the current setup you are describing, but I'm having issues with router losing connection on incoming calls(on phone in other room using extension cord).

Lets not get off topic ....the router is moving to other room, I just want to know the best way of doing this? ...the router was in the other room before without issue or noticeable signal loss + running 1 wire is better than running 2.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: broadstairs on December 12, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
This is the current setup you are describing, but I'm having issues with router losing connection on incoming calls(on phone in other room using extension cord).

Frankly if this were my issue I'd fix this first before doing anything else because this should simply not be happening. There is a problem and I'm not sure moving the router will fix it.

Stuart
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
Frankly if this were my issue I'd fix this first before doing anything else because this should simply not be happening. There is a problem and I'm not sure moving the router will fix it.
Fixing the issue is exactly what I'm trying to do ...but I'm not trying to fix it by just "moving the router" I'm replacing everything including the MS.  Moving the router means one less wire while providing wired internet for two PC.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: skyeci on December 12, 2017, 12:08:30 PM
provided you understand by moving the MS there is potential to reduce your DS sync as you are extending the length of the line aside from fact the MS is Openreach equipment.

I would now with further reading, replace the MS where it is with a new one.Test sync/phones etc and then consider moving it if that's what you really want to do but by leaving it where it is and sorting the issue and then considering other connection options you could save some sync and avoid moving the MS....
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 12:14:45 PM
provided you understand by moving the MS there is potential to reduce your DS sync as you are extending the length of the line aside from fact the MS is Openreach equipment.

I would now with further reading, replace the MS where it is with a new one.Test sync/phones etc and then consider moving it if that's what you really want to do but by leaving it where it is and sorting the issue and then considering other connection options you could save some sync and avoid moving the MS....

I'm not moving the master socket.

Basically I need to install an extension from the master socket to another room ...not a 2nd line.

The extension will allow the relocation of the router to other room.
The extension/router will provide wired internet for 2 desktops in other room.
The extension will provide a telephone socket for a 2nd wired telephone in other room.

I figured the NTE5C(master socket) would make a good extension box as it has the filter faceplate.

Also, I will be replacing the original mastersocket ...yes, I'm aware of the warnings!!!

I cant use cordless phone or wireless for the desktops, it has to be the requirements described above.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tubaman on December 12, 2017, 01:20:56 PM
Absolutely agree with skieci and Broadstairs.
The current setup should work perfectly and clearly has a fault.
Does the router drop the connection when you answer the main phone (ie the one in the master socket). If it does not then there is a fault with the extension side (wiring polarity reversal perhaps, or a faulty phone?).
If it still drops the connection then it suggests a fault on the Openreach side and they should be engaged to fix it.
 :)
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 01:39:34 PM
The current setup should work perfectly and clearly has a fault.
Does the router drop the connection when you answer then main phone (ie the one in the master socket). If it does not then there is a fault with the extension wiring (polarity reversal perhaps?).
This is exactly the issue and as you say points to the extension cable as the source, which is why I've opted for a proper wired in extension instead of replacing the extension cable & it solves the issue of wired internet for the 2 desktops in other room ...all on one wire.

A few years ago, the room in question did have a wired-in extension from the same ms without issue.  Even with router on a 7m run from ms it will be an improvement on the current situation, who knows between cat5 and filtered faceplate it might be same or slight improvement, at worst any loss will be minimal.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
When installing an extension to the master socket, ...can a master socket box(eg NTE5A) be used instead of a secondary/extension socket box(eg LJU2/3A) ?

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: 4candles on December 12, 2017, 02:20:09 PM
Er, well, you could, but it's not advisable, as you can't snip off the capacitor and resistor like you could on the old masters.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: 4candles on December 12, 2017, 02:23:56 PM
I think given the more risk of losing some sync speed due to lengthening the line...


Seriously?  :o


It can't be more than a few metres.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 12, 2017, 02:51:21 PM
Nooooooooooo!!!!!

You need a filtered faceplate on the existing master socket. On the back of that are connections for data. You will need to run TWO wires through, one for the data with a socket you can plug your router/modem straight in to without a filter and the second for a phone extension which again won't need a filter as it will be connected to the filtered side of the master socket.

You need 4 WIRES which can be contained within 1 CABLE. Connect 2 wires to data extension terminals in master socket and 2 wires to terminals 2&5 on removable faceplate. At extension you need 2 sockets, an RJ11 for the data and a phone socket for telephony.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tubaman on December 12, 2017, 03:00:12 PM
licquorice,
Strictly you need 5 wires as the phone extension should have 3 (unless you want 2 master sockets, which is not advised).
Most modern phones will work on a 2 wire connection, but it's not guaranteed.

tuk,
I assume you have swapped the extension phone to prove that it isn't causing the problem?
 :)
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: roseway on December 12, 2017, 03:44:30 PM
I've merged the other topic on the same subject into this one.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: jelv on December 12, 2017, 04:07:48 PM
Is the extension cable you are using at present for the phone plugged in to a filter or filtered socket?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 04:19:39 PM
You need 4 WIRES which can be contained within 1 CABLE. Connect 2 wires to data extension terminals in master socket and 2 wires to terminals 2&5 on removable faceplate. At extension you need 2 sockets, an RJ11 for the data and a phone socket for telephony.

Would it not be better to split the signal at the extension/secondary socket box?

I assume you have swapped the extension phone to prove that it isn't causing the problem?

Yes.

Is the extension cable you are using at present for the phone plugged in to a filter or filtered socket?

It's plugged into a plug-in filter that came with router, ..I've also tried 3 different filters and tried all 3 together in daisy chain.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 12, 2017, 04:30:33 PM
If you want to do that you would need to make the new location the master and the old location the extension. You could achieve this by crimping the incoming pair of wires to one pair going to the new master within the back box of the now to be extension  and then use  another pair (or 3 wires if you have a steam driven phone) connected to terminals 2&5 (and 3) in the master back to the extension socket.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 04:35:06 PM
If you want to do that you would need to make the new location the master and the old location the extension. You could achieve this by crimping the incoming pair of wires to one pair going to the new master within the back box of the now to be extension  and then use  another pair (or 3 wires if you have a steam driven phone) connected to terminals 2&5 (and 3) in the master back to the extension socket.

That might be an idea for the future ...but in the meantime I could use something like this for the extension/secondary box:

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/BTsocketFILTEREDwithRJ11/
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 12, 2017, 04:52:16 PM
Yes, you could do. If you leave the existing master socket you will need to use a filter with it. If you replace the master with a filtered master you would need to wire the extension from the data extension terminals to provide an unfiltered pair at the extension.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 05:18:12 PM
If you replace the master with a filtered master you would need to wire the extension from the data extension terminals to provide an unfiltered pair at the extension.
If signal is filtered at ms, is it possible to use a single cable for the extension..say cat5?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 12, 2017, 05:22:50 PM
You only need a single cable whatever you do, just the number of wires utilised will vary.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: roseway on December 12, 2017, 06:40:41 PM
If your master socket has got a filtered faceplate, this will have A and B connections available. These are unfiltered, and you can use them to connect via an appropriate twisted pair cable to the filtered extension socket. This is the system I have at home.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 12, 2017, 07:13:33 PM
If your master socket has got a filtered faceplate, this will have A and B connections available. These are unfiltered, and you can use them to connect via an appropriate twisted pair cable to the filtered extension socket. This is the system I have at home.

Will a 'master socket with filtered faceplate' have both sets of extension connections? ...filtered and unfiltered, so both options are available or?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: roseway on December 12, 2017, 07:24:57 PM
Yes, it should do.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: jelv on December 12, 2017, 07:35:03 PM
If you use a single cable make sure you use wires from one twisted pair for each purpose.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 13, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
A filtered master socket would be nice, but is more expensive with no obvious return, a bb socket in that part of the house would probably never be used
 and if required a plug-in filter would suffice.. 

MS: Filtered
£28.20 NTE5C -filtered Master Socket: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/
£1.36 Surface Mount Back Box: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/euro-faceplates-backboxes/22mmbackbox/?search=22MBB
£9.20 Secondary/Extension Socket, filtered With RJ11/RJ45 Port: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/BTsocketFILTEREDwithRJ11/
£5.52 10m CW1724 Cable BLACK : https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/telephone-network-cable/cw1724cable10mb/
--------
£44.28
--------

MS: Unfiltered
£9.20 NTE5A unfiltered Master Socket:  https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/openreach-branded-nte5-master-socket/
£9.20 Secondary/Extension Socket, filtered With RJ11/RJ45 Port: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/BTsocketFILTEREDwithRJ11/
£5.52 10m CW1724 Cable BLACK : https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/telephone-network-cable/cw1724cable10mb/
--------
£23.92
--------


Which cable?
The cw1724 cable is 2 pair only and claims to be "intended for high bit rate digital services", both cables are cat5e.

£5.52 10m CAT5e Cable: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/telephone-network-cable/CAT5ecable10M/
£5.52 10m CW1724 Cable: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/telephone-network-cable/cw1724cable10mb/
---

Any other bits I need for shopping list?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 13, 2017, 02:00:22 PM
CW1308 would be perfectly adequate but you might as well run a Cat5e for any future proofing.

A filter will be required in the Master socket if you intend to use it for telephony, not just for BB.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: ktz392837 on December 13, 2017, 02:29:09 PM
Not too sure on current prices but in past Ebay has always been good for master sockets (and other related items) I am sure they are usually £10-15 rather than £25? 

Obviously check what you are getting as some listings include more bits or different versions.  The newer versions are easy to fit as when BT installed one for me it was done in a blink of an eye not sure how, it was like he didn't need any tools at all apart from a screwdriver to take off the old one. 

Warning I am not sure if BT officially allow you to disconnect the master socket wires as they class it as their property.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 13, 2017, 03:04:23 PM

Warning I am not sure if BT officially allow you to disconnect the master socket wires as they class it as their property.

They don't.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 13, 2017, 04:06:54 PM
The NTE5C-MK4 is quite a bit cheaper on Ebay at £14, all the other parts are about same price.

The Mk4 is more bulky, but I wonder which has the better filter?
NTE5C Mk4 -Filtered Master Socket: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/
Secondary/Extension Socket, Filtered: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/BTsocketFILTEREDwithRJ11/

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 14, 2017, 01:43:26 PM
CW1724 has been discontinued by us, it was basically CAT5 spec as far as the internal twists go but is only 2 pair, we've switched to 4 pair CAT5e as it's easier to get and offers more future proofing if required. Re: The master socket, the Mk4 is VDSL, the other socket you have linked to is NOT designed to be used as a master socket (no technical reason why it won't work though) & was designed for ADSL. If you have extensions then the obvious choice is the Mk4. W can't compete with the eBay prices, we have to buy out stock!
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 14, 2017, 04:31:26 PM
CW1724 has been discontinued by us, it was basically CAT5 spec as far as the internal twists go but is only 2 pair, we've switched to 4 pair CAT5e as it's easier to get and offers more future proofing if required. Re: The master socket, the Mk4 is VDSL, the other socket you have linked to is NOT designed to be used as a master socket (no technical reason why it won't work though) & was designed for ADSL. If you have extensions then the obvious choice is the Mk4. W can't compete with the eBay prices, we have to buy out stock!

Thanks for the info,

The second link was for the extension/secondary box, ...I was just wondering if better to filter the incoming signal via the master socket(MK4) or the extension box(2nd link).  I could just use NTE5A for the master socket then filter the signal on the extension/secondary socket?

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 04:48:35 PM
That would introduce a bridge tap
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 14, 2017, 05:55:01 PM
It would be best to use the filtering (or not if for broadband!) of the Mk4 for the extension. Use one of our VDSL extension kits :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdsl-adsl-extension-kits/

If you need telephone on the extension just add the telephone option to the kit :) If you just need telephone and no broadband on the extension just use a secondary socket and again filter via the Mk4 :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/BTsocketsecondary/
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 06:15:22 PM
It would be best to use the filtering (or not if for broadband!) of the Mk4 for the extension.

If you need telephone on the extension just add the telephone option to the kit

 If you just need telephone and no broadband on the extension just use a secondary socket and again filter via the Mk4

This shows you don't understand the requirements, so you are just confusing the issue.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 14, 2017, 06:20:20 PM
I am confused now as to exactly what I need to buy...

I need a new master socket(only phone required) + an extension/secondary socket for both phone and broadband.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: burakkucat on December 14, 2017, 06:30:41 PM
I am thoroughly confused!  ???

Back on page one of this thread, I asked about the master socket that is currently installed (in "room one"). Is it an old Line Jack (e.g. a LJU2/1A, perhaps) and not an NTE5?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: gt94sss2 on December 14, 2017, 06:43:59 PM
I am confused now as to exactly what I need to buy...

I need a new master socket(only phone required) + an extension/secondary socket for both phone and broadband.

What you need for the extension is: https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdsl-adsl-extension-kits/vdslextensionkit10m/ as you want to run the modem on it.

This is a VDSL extension kit. However, as you also want to use that for voice calls, you also need the £4 add-on which you can see if you scroll to the bottom of that page.

Whether you need to replace your existing master socket depends on what type you have already.. as Burakkucat says.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 14, 2017, 07:16:39 PM
The existing master socket is pre-internet and does look similar to a LJU2/1A.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 07:24:03 PM
Does it have a single wire running to it?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 14, 2017, 07:28:47 PM
Does it have a single wire running to it?
Yes.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 07:36:14 PM
Is it fed by the BT drop cable?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 14, 2017, 07:39:17 PM
A single cable comes from the pole outside, in through window, terminates on junction box, single cable from junction box to master socket.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 08:06:12 PM
Junction box. Is that the first time you've mentioned that?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: j0hn on December 14, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
You need 4 WIRES which can be contained within 1 CABLE. Connect 2 wires to data extension terminals in master socket and 2 wires to terminals 2&5 on removable faceplate. At extension you need 2 sockets, an RJ11 for the data and a phone socket for telephony.
This, and only this. 2 Master sockets is a no.
CW1308 is the only cable you need. It's 4 core/2 pair. 1 pair carries the DSL signal, the other voice. The A+B terminals on the MK faceplates are designed to carry a DSL signal to another location.

You DO NOT need a master socket with a filtered faceplate in the new location. The DSL is already filtered from the existing master sockets faceplate.

Sync drop should be very small if you use good quality cable. Changing line length from 500m to 510m (random example) should make next to no difference.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 14, 2017, 10:34:13 PM
Hasn't got an NTE5A/B/C master socket
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: burakkucat on December 14, 2017, 11:27:19 PM
I've been checking back through the history of this forum and have found a pertinent thread begun on March 17, 2008, 18:20:49 (and so before my "re-homing" here) --

"Wierd BT Master Box setup..need advice!!!!" (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1672.msg56601.html)
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 08:34:45 AM
I've been checking back through the history of this forum and have found a pertinent thread begun on March 17, 2008, 18:20:49 (and so before my "re-homing" here) --

"Wierd BT Master Box setup..need advice!!!!" (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,1672.msg56601.html)

A 9 year old thread is pertinent to this one?

Don't worry if the answers aren't forthcoming after 4 pages it's probably never going to happen, especially when admin go into troll mode rather than helping, I will find another forum.

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tubaman on December 15, 2017, 08:55:36 AM
The 9 year old thread looks highly pertinent to me (unless you've moved house since?).
There is no definitive 'answer' to your issue, but you've been given a number of very sensible options by people who very much know what they're talking about.
It sounds rather like you already had an 'answer' in mind before you asked, and it isn't one of the suggested ones?
 :)
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 09:08:37 AM
There is no definitive 'answer' to your issue, but you've been given a number of very sensible options by people who very much know what they're talking about.
It sounds rather like you already had an 'answer' in mind before you asked, and it isn't one of the suggested ones?
I think the trouble is you've forgotten what my question was, as I didn't ask for "options" in the OP.

I did ask for someone to check my shopping list to install both a master socket and an extension, that is all, nothing more.

Which means details on the existing master socket are totally irrelevant.
Which means an unrelated 9 year old thread is irrelevant.
Which means talk of junction boxes is irrelevant.

It sounds rather that too many posters are answering questions they have in their mind rather than the questions asked in the OP.

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tubaman on December 15, 2017, 09:20:43 AM
Everyone is trying to help you to arrange the wiring so you get the best combined performance from your broadband and your telephone, and that is why questions have been asked and different options suggested.
If you go ahead and buy the items on your shopping list then you will in all likelihood get a working solution, but it may not work as well as it could if you did it a different way.
 :)
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 09:28:31 AM
If you go ahead and buy the items on your shopping list then you will in all likelihood get a working solution, but it may not work as well as it could if you did it a different way.
 :)
I don't see anyone suggesting a different + better working solution that meets the requirements of the OP than a new master socket and secondary/extension box.  What post number is that?

Does an ancient master socket work better than a new master socket?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 09:43:07 AM
I am confused now as to exactly what I need to buy...

I need a new master socket(only phone required) + an extension/secondary socket for both phone and broadband.
I've already answered above, it doesn't get any simpler! Assuming you have an incoming line currently terminated to one master socket you need to replace that with a Mk4 :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/

You may need a back box if you don't already have one :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/euro-faceplates-backboxes/22mmbackbox/

That will give you a new filtered master socket for your phone. For the extension you just need this kit :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdsl-adsl-extension-kits/vdslextensionkit10m/

& add the telephone option at the bottom of the page. That gives you an extension socket with filtered telephone & unfiltered broadband. Job done!
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: jelv on December 15, 2017, 09:45:01 AM
I would suggest everyone stops contributing to this topic. The OP has obviously made his mind up on how he wants to do it and isn't prepared to listen to the advice being given, nor provide us with the details of the existing sockets etc. which would allow us to recommend the best way forward (technically and economically). If we do answer his questions and it all goes wrong he's likely to start blaming us.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 09:45:30 AM
This shows you don't understand the requirements, so you are just confusing the issue.
There is nothing to confuse, it's really very simple.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 09:47:05 AM
I would suggest everyone stops contributing to this topic. The OP isn't prepared to listen to the advice being given, nor provide us with the details of the existing sockets etc. which would allow us to recommend the best way forward (technically and economically). If we do answer his questions and it all goes wrong he's likely to start blaming us.
No problem, OP if you want help I'd suggest emailing us directly. Really not interested in getting into an argument on here! We see when forums link to us & if we can help chime in. All the info is above.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: roseway on December 15, 2017, 10:17:56 AM
... especially when admin go into troll mode rather than helping...

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that. Certainly the answers have been a bit uncoordinated, but everyone has been trying to provide you with helpful information, even though you still haven't clearly described your present wiring configuration. Without the latter information it's not possible to give a simple yes/no answer to your shopping list question.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 15, 2017, 11:42:26 AM
I would suggest everyone stops contributing to this topic. The OP has obviously made his mind up on how he wants to do it and isn't prepared to listen to the advice being given, nor provide us with the details of the existing sockets etc. which would allow us to recommend the best way forward (technically and economically). If we do answer his questions and it all goes wrong he's likely to start blaming us.

Absolutely agree.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 15, 2017, 11:58:13 AM
No, it's not very friendly to withdraw support from a poster. All you can do is give the best advice you can and hope for a good result. (http://emotionless.co.uk/emotes/char/xmas15.gif)

Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 03:08:13 PM
I've already answered above, it doesn't get any simpler! Assuming you have an incoming line currently terminated to one master socket you need to replace that with a Mk4 :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/

You may need a back box if you don't already have one :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/euro-faceplates-backboxes/22mmbackbox/

That will give you a new filtered master socket for your phone. For the extension you just need this kit :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdsl-adsl-extension-kits/vdslextensionkit10m/

& add the telephone option at the bottom of the page. That gives you an extension socket with filtered telephone & unfiltered broadband. Job done!


Proposed shopping list:
-----------------
NTE5C -MK4
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates/mk4btopenreachvdslsocket/

Surface Mount Back Box:
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/euro-faceplates-backboxes/22mmbackbox/

vDSL/ADSL Extension Kit-10M Internal
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/vdsl-adsl-extension-kits/vdslextensionkit10m/

-----------------

As the master socket will only be used to plug in a telephone, is it an option to use the NTE5A master socket instead of the MK4?

NTE5A
https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-sockets/openreach-branded-nte5-master-socket/

Apart from the usual screwdrivers etc, do I need any other tools or odds n ends on my shopping list to install this?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 03:26:19 PM
No, you need a filter at the master socket to be able to plug a phone in, as you wanted phone & data on the extension the Mk4 will handle this too. You need the telephone option in the kit (bottom of page), no other tools required. You may need cable clips :-

https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/cable-clips/cableclip5mmwhite/
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 04:02:16 PM
No, you need a filter at the master socket to be able to plug a phone in, as you wanted phone & data on the extension the Mk4 will handle this too.
This bit confuses me as the instructions on your site seem to say the extension is connected to the unfiltered connectors on the MK4?

Does that not mean its the extension box doing the filtering?
If the extension is doing the filtering could I not just use a NTE5A with plug-in filter for the phone?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 04:20:22 PM
Broadband side-CONNECTED TO UNFILTERED
Phone side-CONNECTED TO FILTERED

The extension is doing NOTHING, the MK4 is providing FILTERED & UNFILTERED outlets.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 15, 2017, 04:26:41 PM
This could cause a bridge tap as the router is supposed to be the first device on the line and in the first socket on the line. However you also have a junction box doing who knows what.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 04:43:02 PM
This could cause a bridge tap as the router is supposed to be the first device on the line and in the first socket on the line. However you also have a junction box doing who knows what.
I'm afraid you are the one confusing the matter. This is NOT what a bridge tap is at all (the router is going on an extension NOT the master socket) but I'll leave this thread here. OP, if you want any more help contact us directly please. Bye for now.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 15, 2017, 04:47:20 PM
As you said, you canít compete with eBay
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: runitdirect on December 15, 2017, 04:51:46 PM
On price, no. On support, advice, warranty etc. Easily. The OP knows where we are.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 15, 2017, 04:56:17 PM
Broadband side-CONNECTED TO UNFILTERED
Phone side-CONNECTED TO FILTERED

The extension is doing NOTHING, the MK4 is providing FILTERED & UNFILTERED outlets.

Thanks for your patience and clarification.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: NewtronStar on December 15, 2017, 08:10:46 PM
Have the same setup here Master Socket 5C with MK4 faceplate and 10m of data extension cable Cat5e to a socket in another room where the Modem/Router resides but without the phone.

Sometimes when having to make a call to our ISP to run tests they require you to plug the Modem/Router into the test socket that means removing the Filtered Faceplate MK4 and then using a Micro Filter at the test socket and also moving the Modem/Router to the Master Socket.

So was thinking I would need about 4 Meters of Cat5e RJ11 to RJ11 from MS to Modem during the test is there such a cable ?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: jelv on December 16, 2017, 09:36:20 AM
Why Cat 5? Surely all you need is a high speed ADSL modem cable which you can get from any number of places such as https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/high-speed-adsl-modem-cable-5m-a93cg
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: NewtronStar on December 16, 2017, 03:05:27 PM
Well the Cat5e solid copper core twisted seems do a good job on the data extension run without any sync deterioration so why not keep it the same for the test cable was even going to place an order with Mr Telephone but the shop is closed for Xmas.

The cable you linked to would do just as well just a bit pricey.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: Dray on December 16, 2017, 03:36:08 PM
The problem is that you are using solid infrastructure cable terminated by plugs when it should be terminated at sockets. The cable to plug connection will be under stress and may fail. You should use a flexible patch cable.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 23, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
If using cat5 to carry AB signal from mastersocket to extension,

Is it better to use two wires from separate pairs or the same pair?
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 23, 2017, 07:02:26 PM
Obviously better to use one pair, that is the whole point of Cat5 ..........twisted pairs.  ???
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 23, 2017, 07:27:10 PM
Obviously better to use one pair, that is the whole point of Cat5 ..........twisted pairs.  ???

It's only obvious if you already know the answer  ???
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 23, 2017, 07:31:29 PM
I thought you knew all the answers.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 23, 2017, 07:33:53 PM
I thought you knew all the answers.

What led you to think that? ...certainly can't be the 6 page thread I created where I asked lots of questions.
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: licquorice on December 23, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
Re-read it
Title: Re: MS + Ext ..help!
Post by: tuk on December 23, 2017, 07:49:29 PM
Re-read it

Ah good to hear you're up to speed now.