Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Router Monitoring Software => Topic started by: roseway on August 22, 2017, 02:07:17 PM

Title: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 22, 2017, 02:07:17 PM
Version 6.0.6 of DSLstats adds just one feature - the vectoring state is included in MDWS uploads, and MDWS adds an additional traffic light to indicate the vectoring state. On MDWS, when you hover the mouse over the vectoring traffic light it displays extra explanatory information.

Unfortunately HG612_Modem_Stats won't be supporting this feature yet, because we've been unable to contact Bald_Eagle1 for some time.

Downloads: http://dslstats.me.uk/downloads.html
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 22, 2017, 02:13:54 PM
Thanks for adding this feature.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: banger on August 22, 2017, 03:50:37 PM
Does this affect the upload17.exe as I am still using the one from 6.0.2? 6.0.6 runs ok with the old upload17 but otherwise stops working with new version.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Chrysalis on August 22, 2017, 04:03:22 PM
thanks eric good design choice :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 22, 2017, 04:16:55 PM
Does this affect the upload17.exe as I am still using the one from 6.0.2? 6.0.6 runs ok with the old upload17 but otherwise stops working with new version.

There was only ever one version of upload17.exe, the one which has been included in all versions from 6.0.3 6.0.2 onwards. It has a file size of 271360 bytes and an MD5sum of 1da60aaf1da11f0451745cbffef4bb24. If you have a file with the same name but different values from the above, then it didn't come from me (unless it's something else which has been renamed, or got corrupted at some point).
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: freelander on August 22, 2017, 04:34:59 PM
thanks
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 04:38:02 PM
Version 6.0.6 of DSLstats adds just one feature - the vectoring state is included in MDWS uploads, and MDWS adds an additional traffic light to indicate the vectoring state. On MDWS, when you hover the mouse over the vectoring traffic light it displays extra explanatory information.

Unfortunately HG612_Modem_Stats won't be supporting this feature yet, because we've been unable to contact Bald_Eagle1 for some time.

Downloads: http://dslstats.me.uk/downloads.html

I should add that although coded this is not enabled yet in MDWS as we want to see some real data for an enabled line before doing so. Looks okay in testing though. So if you have vectoring enabled and can upgrade DSLStats then please do so. Both Eric and I are running it with no problems.

Most people will currently only see a single blue traffic light (it's on weed I think) to indicate that vectoring is not yet enabled. Three green lights is good news!

(https://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/vector-example.jpg)

There is also an extra column in All User Stats that offers a quick visual check for all users on Vectoring status. These facilities will only be available to Supporters and thus also only visible on the wider graphs.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: freelander on August 22, 2017, 04:56:54 PM
Vectoring  running here and upgraded , thanks
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 22, 2017, 05:03:49 PM
Excellent! I see it, all greens.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 05:30:56 PM
Likewise plus a few more Not Enableds. Also Morphium but as he is in Switzerland it won't show as the traffic lights don't display as it's all currently part of the DLM status which only works for the UK. He does show on the All User Stats though as that is separate - and needs some more work though.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Bestgear on August 22, 2017, 06:13:42 PM

Unfortunately HG612_Modem_Stats won't be supporting this feature yet, because we've been unable to contact Bald_Eagle1 for some time.

Downloads: http://dslstats.me.uk/downloads.html

Just installed the 6.0.6 version - and using a 612.

Does the above mean I wont see any changes?

Thanks
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 22, 2017, 06:32:15 PM
@Bestgear: No, it should work fine. HG612_Modem_Stats is a separate monitoring suite of scripts and programs which hasn't been updated recently.

Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 06:47:09 PM
Excellent! I see it, all greens.
And so can everyone else now as it's all enabled on MDWS along with All User Stats  :cool:

There will probably be a few oddities and will be fixed as we go along.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: burakkucat on August 22, 2017, 07:07:27 PM
I've just checked MDWS for Kitz' circuit data and there is now a fourth set of "traffic lights", all pale blue.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 07:21:30 PM
I think you will find they are all grey, not blue so not enabled as the hover data shows.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: burakkucat on August 22, 2017, 07:31:05 PM
I think you will find they are all grey, not blue so not enabled as the hover data shows.

I agree that the words shown, when hovering the cursor over the right-hand "traffic light" set, state grey but visually, to me, they are very pale blue.  :P

But we're not going to squabble over it.  :drink:
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: NewtronStar on August 22, 2017, 07:50:39 PM
Grey to me when zoomed in
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 07:54:20 PM
I agree that the words shown, when hovering the cursor over the right-hand "traffic light" set, state grey but visually, to me, they are very pale blue.  :P

But we're not going to squabble over it.  :drink:
Specsavers comes to mind  :lol:

I've changed it to a darker shade of grey just for you
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Ronski on August 22, 2017, 07:58:31 PM
Great work guys  :thumbs:
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 22, 2017, 09:35:27 PM
Thanks for all the work. Just a suggestion, would it be possible to add to the username a "v" after the "g" to indicate user has vectoring.  Useful when scrolling down usernames on a mobile etc.

Cheers
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 10:09:09 PM
Done and it reads 'freelander GV' for instance. I am assuming that G.INP needs to be enabled for Vectoring to be enabled?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 22, 2017, 10:12:22 PM
Many thanks!!  :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: burakkucat on August 22, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
I've changed it to a darker shade of grey just for you

b*cat performs one of his best Japanese style bows and utters the word "purrfect". (Though that darker shade of grey appears to have a slight purple tint, to me.  :D )
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 10:19:55 PM
I suggest you  :comp:
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: NewtronStar on August 22, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
Same here why not change it to all reds indicating that the circuit has no vectoring or make another tab like you did with G.INP active and Vectoring active  :-\
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 22, 2017, 10:42:57 PM
You need to get your monitors calibrated properly. The all grey lights image is pure greyscale with no RGB colour information.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 22, 2017, 10:49:23 PM
Nice tab addition on "all users" -  :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: j0hn on August 23, 2017, 01:38:41 AM
Tony, could we have a break down of what vectoring numbers relate to what lights?
I assume red is 4 = VECT_DISABLED and green is 1 = VECT_FULL but not to sure on others.

Also, big thanks to Tony and Roseway for adding another neat feature.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 08:28:22 AM
It now tells you the codes on the hover data:

(https://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/vector-example2.jpg)

The actual modem output data set was posted HERE (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20184.msg353025.html#msg353025) but is shown below again:

0 = VECT_WAIT_FOR_CONFIG
1 = VECT_FULL
2 = VECT_WAIT_FOR_TRIGGER
3 = VECT_RUNNING
4 = VECT_DISABLED
5 = VECT_UNCONFIGURED

It's early days but, believe it or not from some reactions, some serious thought has gone into what the lights show for the various states.

They are currently shown as (based on limited available understanding):

All Grey=No Data either because the stats program used doesn't support Vectoring data upload (HG612_Modem_Stats) or wrong version of DSLStats and it will tell you that if the user has a version earlier than 6.0.6 or user is not in the UK or it is an ADSL line (when the extra lights are not present at all).

Blue=Not Enabled. We wanted a colour that was distinct from any of the other DLM lights for a state which initially will be in the majority. Red, unless I've been on another planet for the past 25 years or so is universally taken as indicating an error or serious problem and lack of Vectoring is not either of those despite what some people appear to think.

Green was the obvious choice for an Enabled line. There are two states though [1] and [3] with [3] appearing to exist when data is being transferred while running. Originally [3] was two greens and a central amber or just the two upper greens BUT because the data is only sampled every minute (more often is not feasible) it could happen that it stayed in that state for long periods in some circumstances if the sampling period kept hitting it while there was data transfer. Then the user would be posting asking what's up....  No idea how long it stays in state [3] each time but I'll monitor it when there is enough data.

Amber is for 'Inactive'  states (0) (square brackets makes the editor display a superscripted 0)  and [2] where Vectoring appears not to be enabled yet but is in the process of being enabled  - I think that's right but if someone knows better for sure....

and a single Red light indicates Vectoring is disabled after (presumably) being enabled so might be a problem. Three Red lights indicates some problem with the returned data - it could be that if ECI ever goes live with Vectoring that it has different codes?

Maybe I can go off and have some breakfast now.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: ktz392837 on August 23, 2017, 10:27:22 AM
Sorry if obvious but why are there three lights instead of one?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
Sorry if obvious but why are there three lights instead of one?
Because there are people that mistake blue for green and three is more obvious....
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: broadstairs on August 23, 2017, 11:12:23 AM
I noticed earlier that I appear to have different colour leds, it seemed to be  red blue red (top to bottom), but on closer inspection zoomed in considerably grey blue grey. So it seems like the three have different meanings I had expected 3 blues and I am not enabled, actually my stats show a 5 and Not Configured.

Stuart
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 01:31:43 PM
To try and alleviate the problem of confusion amongst users who have problems with monitor calibration or eyesight and see things that aren't in reality there (or maybe for other reasons) there are some changes to the way the lights are displayed. Space is at a premium on the status bar so the traffic light idea has to stay for operational reasons.

There is now only one central light displayed for all states (except data errors) against a pure black background rather than adjacent to greys in many cases.

Also the Blue Not Enabled light has a small central vertical black bar to help distinguish it from the green one.

I chose Not Enabled for Status 5 rather than Not Configured or Unconfigured as it seemed to convey that status better to the majority of users who are not particularly technical.

But Data errors get three red lights - if you see these, please report it for investigation.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: licquorice on August 23, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
The original iteration was the best.  ;)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Dray on August 23, 2017, 02:12:33 PM
Sorry, I don't understand why the vectoring status is included with the traffic lights showing the (not) ILQ status?

Wouldn't it be better to repeat the full line that's shown on the All User Stats page at the top of the single user page, except with the (not) ILQ traffic lights replacing the username?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: gt94sss2 on August 23, 2017, 02:33:58 PM
There is now only one central light displayed for all states (except data errors) against a pure black background rather than adjacent to greys in many cases.

Have to say that personally I find the new black background much harder on the eyes than the previous incarnations but perhaps thats just me :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: ejs on August 23, 2017, 02:40:57 PM
it could be that if ECI ever goes live with Vectoring that it has different codes?

I don't think so, these codes are specific to the Broadcom DSL driver. They don't necessarily mean very much about vectoring in general.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 04:03:42 PM
Sorry, I don't understand why the vectoring status is included with the traffic lights showing the (not) ILQ status?

It's the DLM status as it says - hence it's not the ILQ status which is quite a bit different.

It was done that way as I had a bit of spare time and working with Eric came up with that as an easy and quick solution that only took a few hours to implement and give users some insight into whether they had Vectoring or not. Probably a bad idea on reflection as I've now I've spent way more time fiddling with it to try and sort out certain problems I don't believe ever really existed in the first place.

Any other solution will take far too much time than I have available so it will now have to stay as it is for the foreseeable future - or I could maybe just turn it off if it's that bad and offers no benefit to anyone.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Dray on August 23, 2017, 04:14:18 PM
Sorry just my inner analyst coming out ;)

There's clearly a benefit seeing vectoring being rolled out, so well done and thanks for the effort  :yay:
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 23, 2017, 04:44:22 PM
Thank you for that. Let's all just give Tony a break and see how we get on with it. :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: broadstairs on August 23, 2017, 06:04:33 PM
I think the issue with this and the traffic lights is that on my 1920x1080 screen at standard zoom (ie not in or out) on Firefox each traffic light is approximately 1mm in diameter which is not a lot of real estate for people especially those older folks among us to see clearly the colour. The traffic lights are easy as you can click on them and see the popup window, and the vectoring shows the explanation on a hover. I am not overly bothered since the hover pop up tells me what the current status is. By the way the extra indicator does not show if you set graph to Original.

Lets live with it for now and maybe something can be done in the future to make it clearer.

Stuart
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 09:09:28 PM
I can't quite agree with that as I run at 2560 x 1600 and have no trouble with the colours (obviously) and I'm aged 72....

And further back in this thread is this:

These facilities will only be available to Supporters and thus also only visible on the wider graphs.

Anyway please let it run for now.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Chrysalis on August 23, 2017, 09:11:00 PM
tony I dont think 1 and 3 are equal to each other.

Vectoring has 2 operating modes.

One of the modes makes it so a modem can transmit vectoring compatible signals so it wont crosstalk to fully enabled vectored lines, the other mode is full vectoring where not only does it transmit compatible signals but it can also utilise other vectored signals to kill crosstalk.  I believe the 1 state is fully vectoring, the 3 state is vectoring compatible signal but no active crosstalk mitigation.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 23, 2017, 09:36:25 PM
I did explain earlier why the two stats are shown with one status colour, primarily that, based on observations by a user with active Vectoring, he sees the two states flipping between them and so I can't sample fast enough (once a minute is it) to provide a display that won't be confusing. The hover data though will show which state it was in when last sampled. I would like to see this working myself before I am not around but I'm on an ECI cab... 

It really needs more observations and possibly understanding of how it works. For now, just knowing whether it is on or off is at least something.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Chrysalis on August 24, 2017, 08:18:55 AM
Ahh thanks tony, sorry I missed that explanation.

I think it will be unusual to see the partial mode anyway, that mode if anything was I guess to be used when vectoring was very new, as it doesnt seem much merit in making a modem vectoring friendly whilst not been fully capable.

My info came from trial documents I read on vectoring which were from years ago.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 24, 2017, 09:09:41 AM
For now to hopefully assist everyone, I've added another configuration setting to Options that allows you to select the old three light Vectoring display (the one with grey lights as it was before switching to the current one) or stay with the single light and black background.

It's the second option (assuming you have VDSL and are a Supporter) and the default is the single light black background system. This could also be used to switch between other ways of doing it eventually.

If you do change it, the setting will take effect on the next auto refresh (~1min) or by hitting the green Refresh button to the right of the Resync Dropdown list.

Also, the Country Flag display in Options is now working again.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: freelander on August 24, 2017, 09:15:28 AM
thanks ,i preferred the 3 light system ,easier on my eyes :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 24, 2017, 10:20:46 AM
Thanks for that Tony.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: gt94sss2 on August 24, 2017, 12:07:25 PM
For now to hopefully assist everyone, I've added another configuration setting to Options that allows you to select the old three light Vectoring display (the one with grey lights as it was before switching to the current one) or stay with the single light and black background.

Many thanks :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 25, 2017, 10:24:13 AM
The Vectoring column in All User Stats is now sortable via the Vector heading. You need it to be Ascending to get the desired order as with 75% odd of invalid entries at the moment you'll have to do a lot of scrolling to find the ones you want  ::)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 26, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
There are some major changes to how Vectoring Status is now displayed...

The All User Stats display has been modified over the past few days to give more information.

Now the Graph Status bar mirrors that to some extent  by removing the extra set of traffic lights and replacing by a coloured text box similar to the existing G.INP one (as suggested by newt). Hovering will give more info as before.

It does not display for ADSL lines.

Some examples:

(https://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk/images/vstatus-5.jpg)

The Options setting that flips between the two possible lights display doesn't do anything now but is still there.

@Chry - the Enabled status does flip between 1 and 3 quite a bit!
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: NewtronStar on August 26, 2017, 06:14:40 PM
That looks so much better just need to install DSLstats 6.0.6 on the old RPi the problem the newer updates seem to cause gaps, there is section called Secs (upload at n Secs) and notice if I upload 11 seconds past the minute it's ok, I m not really sure what Secs are if i am honest.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: burakkucat on August 26, 2017, 06:35:18 PM
Now the Graph Status bar mirrors that to some extent  by removing the extra set of traffic lights and replacing by a coloured text box similar to the existing G.INP one (as suggested by newt). Hovering will give more info as before.

Thank you. That is a nice touch and makes it simple to understand.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 26, 2017, 06:43:11 PM
@NewtronStar: You can't directly control the time when you upload to MDWS. What you can control is the time when you start recording (when you press the green button). If you do this soon after the minute, then there is the longest time available for the processing to complete before the upload takes place. With a low powered device like the RPi it may be that it sometimes needs all that time so that the upload takes place before the end of the minute. I don't know if this is the explanation for your gaps.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 26, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
That looks so much better just need to install DSLstats 6.0.6 on the old RPi the problem the newer updates seem to cause gaps, there is section called Secs (upload at n Secs) and notice if I upload 11 seconds past the minute it's ok, I m not really sure what Secs are if i am honest.
Er - Seconds. Try hovering over the cell and it'll explain although you seem to have realised. It's there to help avoid uploading at or close to 00 secs which causes problems if you have a fast  device when uploading starts quickly.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: NewtronStar on August 26, 2017, 07:02:23 PM
Cheers Roseway i'll try 6.0.6 and play about with the green start button well done Tony & Eric
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 26, 2017, 07:52:03 PM
When I view morphium   he no longer has any lights at all. Is this normal?

Thanks
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 26, 2017, 08:15:05 PM
Correct. He is not in the UK so they don't appear as the DLM info isn't supported for overseas. They may have for a while due to the way the vectoring light worked but that would have been a bug.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: skyeci on August 26, 2017, 08:50:21 PM
Ah ok cheers Tony
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 28, 2017, 07:25:38 AM
I see user yakidoda is now reporting Vectoring Fully Enabled  :)
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on August 28, 2017, 07:29:12 AM
Admin note: recent posts here relating to errored seconds have been removed and merged into the main MDWS topic.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Ronski on August 28, 2017, 09:04:16 AM
Tony, I'm really liking the updated vectoring display, much nicer than the old one  :thumbs:. Just as a suggestion, presuming it fits would it not be more descriptive to have "Vectoring Upload Not Supported" rather than "Vectoring Not Supported" when an uploader is using HG612 Stats?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Dray on August 28, 2017, 09:19:31 AM
Is it possible for HG612-modem-stats to be updated? Is the source code available?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 28, 2017, 09:24:58 AM
Tony, I'm really liking the updated vectoring display, much nicer than the old one  :thumbs:. Just as a suggestion, presuming it fits would it not be more descriptive to have "Vectoring Upload Not Supported" rather than "Vectoring Not Supported" when an uploader is using HG612 Stats?
Tried originally and doesn't fit in various ways but you obviously understand what the short version means. The hover tells the full story. Both roseway and I have tried to contact BE1 but he's not been around for at least a year.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Ronski on August 28, 2017, 09:41:42 AM
Is it possible for HG612-modem-stats to be updated? Is the source code available?

I only have very old source code, so unfortunately unless BE1 resurfaces, no I don't thinks so, and I presume Roseway has his personal email address, so I'm sure he would have tried that.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: broadstairs on August 28, 2017, 09:46:26 AM
Only just seen the new Vectoring display, I like it a lot and very easy to see compared with the traffic light. A great improvement Tony.

Stuart
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Chrysalis on August 28, 2017, 10:25:29 AM
Tried originally and doesn't fit in various ways but you obviously understand what the short version means. The hover tells the full story. Both roseway and I have tried to contact BE1 but he's not been around for at least a year.

How about vectoring unconfirmed?
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on August 28, 2017, 11:02:28 AM
Sounds even less helpful  :'(
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: nivek1612 on October 13, 2017, 12:45:19 PM
Just to share

My line went live with Vectoring this morning, with major improvements in throughput on the Download side 18MB from 62 to 80 (not much on upload but thats a whole other thread)

I am observing the vectoring swapping between "Full Enabled" and "Partially Enabled" on a regular basis

I will monitor and see if that swapping reduces in frequency over the coming days or indeed stops
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: tbailey2 on October 13, 2017, 03:54:58 PM
I will monitor and see if that swapping reduces in frequency over the coming days or indeed stops
I don't think it will stop as explained earlier in this thread by Chrysalis:

Quote
Vectoring has 2 operating modes.

One of the modes makes it so a modem can transmit vectoring compatible signals so it wont crosstalk to fully enabled vectored lines, the other mode is full vectoring where not only does it transmit compatible signals but it can also utilise other vectored signals to kill crosstalk.  I believe the 1 state is fully vectoring, the 3 state is vectoring compatible signal but no active crosstalk mitigation

Unfortunately the sampling rate at one minute intervals is probably too slow to see how long it actually stays in each state. You'd need to run a copy of DSLStats sampling as fast as possible and keep an watch  on the state but you can't do that with an upload to MDWS...
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: ejs on October 13, 2017, 07:01:41 PM
tony I dont think 1 and 3 are equal to each other.

Vectoring has 2 operating modes.

One of the modes makes it so a modem can transmit vectoring compatible signals so it wont crosstalk to fully enabled vectored lines, the other mode is full vectoring where not only does it transmit compatible signals but it can also utilise other vectored signals to kill crosstalk.  I believe the 1 state is fully vectoring, the 3 state is vectoring compatible signal but no active crosstalk mitigation.

This explanation for the different states is clearly wrong. There are different levels of vectoring support, either G.993.5 "full" vectoring giving you crosstalk cancellation and a speed boost, or the vectoring friendly modes described in G.993.2 where only other lines benefit. I don't think it's even possible for your line to alternate between full vectoring and vectoring friendly while remaining connected. If it were possible, it would make little sense to be cancelling the crosstalk for your line much for the time, but then occasionally stop doing that at intervals. Therefore I don't think the vectoring state refers to full vectoring vs. vectoring friendly.

I think state 3 VECT_RUNNING probably indicates that the modem is currently doing something (perhaps sending the error samples) at the particular moment you're checking the state.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: Chrysalis on October 14, 2017, 12:14:59 AM
yes I was saying the same that there is 2 modes, vectoring friendly and full on vectoring, but of course I dont know if that other operating mode is in relation to vectoring friendly.
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: smf22 on October 20, 2017, 01:34:05 PM
Not sure just how useful this be be, but I'll post anyway to show a little of what I've observed with vectoring.

What I did was collect the output of xdslctl info --vectoring at 5-second intervals over a ~four [hour] period between 19:50 and midnight, and log key output including the vectoring state, the packets sent or discarded, and the status sent or discarded.

The following is a summary count of each of the states observed during that time:

- Total samples: 2873
- State 1 samples: 2648
- State 2 samples: 5
- State 3 samples: 219

I think state 3 VECT_RUNNING probably indicates that the modem is currently doing something (perhaps sending the error samples) at the particular moment you're checking the state.

I agree with ejs based on what I saw. When in state 1 the packets sent value does not change. When in state 2 or 3 the packet and status counts increase. For example the following shows the transition from state 1 to 3 and back to 1:

Code: [Select]
2017-10-17T19:52:12: state: 1  pkts sent: 329882  disc: 0  status sent: 164941  disc: 0
2017-10-17T19:52:17: state: 1  pkts sent: 329882  disc: 0  status sent: 164941  disc: 0
2017-10-17T19:52:22: state: 3  pkts sent: 330014  disc: 0  status sent: 165007  disc: 0
2017-10-17T19:52:27: state: 3  pkts sent: 330178  disc: 0  status sent: 165089  disc: 0
2017-10-17T19:52:32: state: 1  pkts sent: 330216  disc: 0  status sent: 165108  disc: 0
2017-10-17T19:52:38: state: 1  pkts sent: 330216  disc: 0  status sent: 165108  disc: 0

In terms of state 2 I saw similar behaviour with respect to packet/status count increments for transition from state 1 to 2 and back to 1 again:

Code: [Select]
2017-10-17T20:49:06: state: 1  pkts sent: 339488  disc: 0  status sent: 169744  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:11: state: 1  pkts sent: 339488  disc: 0  status sent: 169744  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:17: state: 2  pkts sent: 339488  disc: 0  status sent: 169744  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:22: state: 1  pkts sent: 339642  disc: 0  status sent: 169821  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:27: state: 1  pkts sent: 339642  disc: 0  status sent: 169821  disc: 0

In terms of state changes from and to, the following were observed:

- 1 to 2
- 1 to 3
- 2 to 3
- 2 to 1
- 3 to 1

As the state 2 seems a little more interesting, the following is an extraction of samples either side of the five times that state 2 was observed:

Code: [Select]
2017-10-17T20:23:47: state: 1  pkts sent: 334578  disc: 0  status sent: 167289  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:23:52: state: 2  pkts sent: 334578  disc: 0  status sent: 167289  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:23:57: state: 3  pkts sent: 334740  disc: 0  status sent: 167370  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:24:02: state: 3  pkts sent: 334902  disc: 0  status sent: 167451  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:24:08: state: 1  pkts sent: 334904  disc: 0  status sent: 167452  disc: 0

2017-10-17T20:49:11: state: 1  pkts sent: 339488  disc: 0  status sent: 169744  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:17: state: 2  pkts sent: 339488  disc: 0  status sent: 169744  disc: 0
2017-10-17T20:49:22: state: 1  pkts sent: 339642  disc: 0  status sent: 169821  disc: 0

2017-10-17T21:28:25: state: 1  pkts sent: 343056  disc: 0  status sent: 171528  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:28:30: state: 3  pkts sent: 343090  disc: 0  status sent: 171545  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:28:35: state: 3  pkts sent: 343252  disc: 0  status sent: 171626  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:28:40: state: 2  pkts sent: 343414  disc: 0  status sent: 171707  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:28:46: state: 1  pkts sent: 343414  disc: 0  status sent: 171707  disc: 0

2017-10-17T21:57:52: state: 1  pkts sent: 348918  disc: 0  status sent: 174459  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:57:57: state: 3  pkts sent: 348976  disc: 0  status sent: 174488  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:58:02: state: 3  pkts sent: 349138  disc: 0  status sent: 174569  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:58:07: state: 2  pkts sent: 349228  disc: 0  status sent: 174614  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:58:13: state: 1  pkts sent: 349228  disc: 0  status sent: 174614  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:58:18: state: 3  pkts sent: 349354  disc: 0  status sent: 174677  disc: 0
2017-10-17T21:58:23: state: 1  pkts sent: 349382  disc: 0  status sent: 174691  disc: 0

2017-10-17T22:32:01: state: 1  pkts sent: 353780  disc: 0  status sent: 176890  disc: 0
2017-10-17T22:32:06: state: 2  pkts sent: 353780  disc: 0  status sent: 176890  disc: 0
2017-10-17T22:32:11: state: 1  pkts sent: 353934  disc: 0  status sent: 176967  disc: 0

I should add that during that period of collection the line did not resync and so states 1, 2 and 3 are all observed during 'normal' operation.

Nothing else to add at this stage, but hopefully the above may shed some light or raise some additional questions.

[Moderator edited to insert the missing word "hour" (as [hour], above).]
Title: Re: DSLstats and MDWS vectoring state support
Post by: roseway on October 20, 2017, 03:37:16 PM
Thank you for that useful data.

I'm guessing that state 2 is a short-lived transient state, and perhaps it occurs quite frequently, but it only occasionally coincides with the 5-second sampling times.