Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: kitz on July 09, 2017, 10:56:37 AM
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About a year or so a several of us noticed that we would see high error spikes at certain times of the day, each and every day. Mine was always at around 10-11am Is anyone else's line still continuing to display this behaviour?
The reason I ask, is that although my spike continues it has got a lot worse.. and for the past week on 3 occasions would have triggered DLM if I hadn't been around to notice it and reboot my router.
The usual 10-11am burst now seems to trigger CRCs and ErrSecs, but unlike previously now requires a resync to stop the errors from continuing to rack up.
Prior to last week my line had sat quite happily at 4.8dB, until on Jul 4th I noticed that it was becoming difficult to surf. A quick look at DSLstats showed that ErrSecs were starting to rack up from 10am. I performed a manual reboot.
Same on the 7th @ 09:56, but I noticed it sooner.
Again this morning @ 10:02 I noticed that pages were failing to load and sure enough the Err Secs had started racking up.
Without doubt on all 3 occasions if it wasn't for my prompt action, then the Errors would continue and DLM would take action the next day.
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I have the same on my line kitz it seems around 9-11pm, it was usually small, but for 2 nights in a row this week it made dslstats send me alerts. So you should be able to see it on MDWS.
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I have the same on my line kitz it seems around 9-11pm, it was usually small, but for 2 nights in a row this week it made dslstats send me alerts. So you should be able to see it on MDWS.
So you do. I had a suspicion that I may not be the only one, which is why I asked. I wonder what they are doing to have caused this.
The smaller blip has always been there and the time may vary from cab to cab. I dont know what happens at that particular time of day, but something appears to cause an increase in errors. iirc Ive also seen some people on Huawei cabs get the slight spike too.
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You could set the Modem to auto reboot say at 10:30am each day just in case your not in to manually reboot the modem it's not ideal just a thought.
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Good suggestion NS thanks.
Unfortunately I dont seem to have that option though in my Zyxel router :(
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With a constantly running system (OS not critical but I think in terms of Unix/Linux) attached to the modem/router and the modem/router using a Broadcom chipset with access to the Busybox shell, then an automated task could be set up to log into the modem/router, once per 24 hours, and issue a "reboot" command.
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I had thought I may have to do some sort of batch file/script and get windows to run it as an automated task.
Not done any digging yet though on how to setup a telnet script.
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This is the easiest way to set such a cron job :)
(https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/418U4DgLdvL.jpg)
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Having just seen another thread rise back to the top has made me go hmmmm.
Now it has been released to BT, they look to be putting it through their acceptance tests, to try to break it.
It does seem rather odd that 3 times this week my errors have shot through the roof. Chrys has also seen it twice.
Now Im not sure what causes that smaller regular daily spike, but its been observed on an awful lot of lines. Whilst times may differ at various cabs, it does seem to be some sort of daily routine.
So why are the errors now going crazy?
Is it any co-incidence that Openreach reported in the past that G.INP on the ECI cabs caused increased error rates. :hmm:
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This is the easiest way to set such a cron job :)
hahah.. like it :D
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What I don't understand is why a reboot of the modem halts the errored seconds if it were a line fault those errored seconds would still be there even after a modem reboot.
If I do my basic fault finding I would test with another Modem with same specification and see if this issue still happens.
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I don't believe it is a line fault. The daily error spike seems to set off the Err Secs, which dont stop until I force a new retrain.
The effect is not dissimilar to how a line can sometimes go noisy after a power outage or a new disturber joins the cab, and then requires some downtime for things to settle.
The reason I started this thread is I wondered if anyone else was getting the same thing. I believe Chrys uses a different modem to me.
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Are you saying the fault lies on all ECI cabinets due to upcoming G.INP implementation ?
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Another observation is I was online at the last error burst, I ran speedtests and packet loss tests, all showed no indication of problems. Which was at odds at the rate the ES was rising.
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You two have have had a terrible time with Broadband your sync rate is 70+ Mbps I would be more concerned when your getting 13-18 retrains per day and then become banded you have nothing to worry or complain about.
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A windows 10 VBS script to copy and paste into notepad then rename with .vbs extension and set a schedule.
set oShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
oShell.run("Telnet")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("Open 192.168.1.1 ")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys"admin"
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("PASSWORD")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("reboot")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("exit")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("quit")
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.SendKeys("{Enter}")
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Another observation is I was online at the last error burst, I ran speedtests and packet loss tests, all showed no indication of problems. Which was at odds at the rate the ES was rising.
Pages were failing to load for me, and I had a message saying I'd dropped the ftp connection to my server. I tried to do a speedtest, but TBB wouldn't load. I had 3 tabs with the spinning wheel just going round in circles. The odd thing is that I did a tracert to the BBC which was perfectly fine.
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You two have have had a terrible time with Broadband your sync rate is 70+ Mbps I would be more concerned when your getting 13-18 retrains per day and then become banded you have nothing to worry or complain about.
Ummmm... It's service impacting and renders my connection unusable. Thats how each time it happened I noticed something odd was going on because the connection was a pile of p00.
Not much good having a sync speed of 70+Mbps when you cant do anything with it because its dropping packets all over the place. ???
The first thing I noticed was a message saying that my ftp session to the server had been dropped. I then tried to open a web-page which failed to load. I couldn't load this site, the BBC or TBB. I couldnt even get to do a speedtest because no pages would load.
See graph below from HG612 stats - note average of 22916 Err Secs per day. See also MDWS showing 35k CRCs per min - that equates to 10's of millions of CRCs per day.
I think DLM would certainly have something to day about that - or would have done if I hadnt been here at the time to do a manual resync and put a halt to it.
Same with Chrys - twice this week he also was around to see it happen and put a stop to it or else DLM would sure as hell taken action. The average bod in the street wouldnt know what to do or have DSLstats running to notice that and end up getting severely penalised. If this is more widespread, then there will be people start to wonder why their speeds have been reduced /banded for no apparent reason.
In my book that is something wrong.
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A windows 10 VBS script to copy and paste into notepad then rename with .vbs extension and set a schedule.
Thank you banger, I think I ran across that script earlier when searching. There was also a openWRT one that I found. I need to double check the router commands in the script, but it should do the trick nicely :)
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You two have have had a terrible time with Broadband your sync rate is 70+ Mbps I would be more concerned when your getting 13-18 retrains per day and then become banded you have nothing to worry or complain about.
Newt haha, what a time to make that comment when my broadband is completely down :)
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Same with Chrys - twice this week he also was around to see it happen and put a stop to it or else DLM would sure as hell taken action. The average bod in the street wouldnt know what to do or have DSLstats running to notice that and end up getting severely penalised. If this is more widespread, then there will be people start to wonder why their speeds have been reduced /banded for no apparent reason.
In my book that is something wrong.
In my case it stopped by itself, I didnt want to lose my 74mbit sync and since everything was functioning I left it alone. However if the ES count got close to the threshold then I would have intervened. It seems your ES count is a lot higher than mine reached which probably explains why yours was service impacting. Bear in mind it could be totally unrelated why I got my bursts, I just mentioned it as I had still remembered it when you made your post.
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>>> I didnt want to lose my 74mbit sync and since everything was functioning I left it alone
Unfortunately as mine continued to rise, I had no alternative. I didn't want to as it meant that I went from 78,841 down to 72,884 but if I hadn't then DLM would have got me resulting in interleaving and a further drop to 68Mbps.
Some odd happened this morning.
At 04:33 there was a short outage at the DSLAM which lasted for 6 mins.
At 04:39 I came back up with a sync speed of 79987. This is max sync speed and the highest Ive sync'd in many months. It's not real though as my crosstalker is now up again.
Today for the first time I can remember in well over a year, I dont have that regular 10-11am spike. However, it looks like it may have shifted to 6-7am. Too early to tell.
The outage at the cab indicates possibly something going on. 5 min outage at that time of night is about right for a f/w update or config changes.
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I had a resync at 02:45am this morning for no reason bar a drop in power from 5.7 to 3.5 on up and down and reduction in US snr. now wondering if this was a config change on the eci cab. Will check cab firmware just in case its changed. I seem to have gathered DS snr overhead at around 6.6 which is unusual for my line based on past issues. If the cab config is different I will let you know. I had previously capped the modem so there is gain to be had now but I am tempted to leave the cap in place until perhaps we see the return of g.inp..
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I am afraid to say it's happened again Kitz you probably have already noticed it to, something goes mad with your HEC error's would like to help but it's way beyond me.
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Thanks NS. It appeared to do its usual thing whereby the daily spike triggered off a large amount of errors.
I wasn't around at the time it occurred, but when I got back I noticed that web pages were extremely sluggish.
A quick look at DSLstats showed that the CRCs were running at 20,000 per min and the Err/Secs at about 3,000 per hour.
I did a couple of quick speedtests (attached below). I was at the time syncing at a full 79987/20000 and you can see how erratic it makes the throughput.
If you look at the pale green line at times throughput is zero, peaking to 11 Mbps for a single thread. Latency was pretty grim too :(
So I powered down the modem and it came back up at 73Mbps where its been sat ever since.
Now there is one thing that is REALLY odd. I fully expected DLM to kick in the next morning like it does on previous occasions and apply INP.
But it didn't. Why it didn't I have no idea.
The only possible reason I can assume is that sufficient other people are seeing the same thing OR because we'd had really bad thunderstorms that day, it was attributed as a Wide Area Event.
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I doubled checked no T/Storms in your vicinity at that time of day and DLM must have seen a local wide area event at your DSLAM the cause unknown, It's looks promising but lets see only time will tell
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We had massive storms here on the 19th. Granted they may not have been at 11 am when my errors started, but we did in the afternoon.
It was really weird, I'd got home saw the errors, rebooted the modem, let the cats out and was feeding the fish. Bluish hazy skies but could feel the static building up in the air. I'd thrown a few tetra sticks in the pond, and as usual Zigs came over and I poured some sticks in my hand as he loves sniffing them. From out of the blue there was a simultaneous flash bang that made me jump so much the tetra sticks went flying and I spilt them all over the patio. Both cats were petrified and ran for cover. Whatever it hit could not have been more than 1/2 mile away.
By 4pm it had escalated to black skies and torrential rain that flooded several areas making some major roads almost impassible.
See here link (http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/offbeat/flash-storm-brings-rush-hour-chaos-1-8659158)
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your spikes must be really annoying, reporting the fault will be near impossible as if it doesnt happen whilst the engineer is there then they wont recognise it.
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Plusnet aren't interested. My speed is above the MGAL of 63.1 Mbps
TBH I think them using the Downstream Handback threshold is rather naughty, especially when sync speed at times falls below the BT Openreach range of 80- 69.1
You can see screen cap of my ticket below showing sync of 67.8Mbps which is below the Openreach range, - note how their system highlights in red how Ive fallen below the BT estimates, but how they conveniently (misuse) the Handback threshold.
I cba to argue the toss atm, especially when until last week it had been syncing at the full 80Mbps. It is a PITA though.
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I am guessing plusnet's view is the engineer will do a RFC compliance test, it will pass, and then will say no fault, which I expect is what would happen. The JDSU tests dont usually fail when the GEA test passes.
You basically need your line to get worse before anything will be done. Either a sharp sync speed drop to breach the GEA speed thresholds or a service outage like I had. I guess black sheep will say the same, the fault is in a too early stage where its not "bad enough" to be picked up.
I have always considered the live BTw estimate irrelevant on a fault report, I just look at the estimate given at the point of sale. I know isp's wont always agree with my view, but I push it nevertheless.
You might be better off dumbing it down, instead of saying "I seen a burst of errors at X time", just say the service stopped working at X time, and give examples like web pages timing out, netflix not working etc. You not lieing saying that as this is what you told us here on the forum. Your service was non responsive during the error burst. If you say it that way then its in a language tech support understand.
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As you say, if Openreach came out then unless it was erroring at that particular time, they would have a hard job finding out what the cause was.
TBF it wouldn't bother me too much if the DLM didnt penalise me. As you can see I'd sat nicely for several weeks at 80Mb, SNRm not budging.
Then something will set it off (rather the daily spike will). I notice before DLM does so I take action and all calms down again. The next day DLM catches up and my speed drops to ~67Mbps and applies interleaving.
The only reason I can think of why I escaped DLM this time is although the Errors were totally unrelated to the Thunderstorms and just outside the time frame, DLM must have classed it as a Wide Area Event. My line is UG all the way, so is not as badly affected by storms as some other lines.
I would also love to know what causes that daily spike on quite a lot of lines even though it may not be as severe as mine is.
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Hi
Could be sewage pumps turning on for a period of time, these are often out of site underground and not necessarily the best maintained bits of electrical equipment, and might explain why no action is taken as it affects many lines and is seen as a wide area event.
If like some of us on ECI cabs you've seen a reduction in power used on the upstream that may make your line more susceptible to having errors even though the noise hasn't necessarily become worse.
Regards
Phil
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I dont think so. AFAIK the nearest sewerage pumps are about a mile away.
Up until the outage last week, they were regular as clockwork between 10-11am. Since then they have been at differing times.
Its also odd that sometimes a router reboot can clear the errors. Daily spikes have been noticed on other lines including those on Huawei cabs.
This week is the first time Ive escaped DLM intervention... but Im assuming that it was because we had very bad storms here quite soon afterwards, then DLM has viewed it in with the storm Wide Area Event.
>>> If like some of us on ECI cabs you've seen a reduction in power used on the upstream
I had noticed that but when I mentioned it on here a few months ago, someone pointed out (ejs?) that it may be some sort of weird reporting error. Note how upstream and downstream are the same.
However if you look at the band breakdown, something is obviously wrong [see cap below] with the aggregated figures.
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kitz having read what you said in the other thread, you have now had a long outage I would concentrate on that and not the speed when dealing with plusnet.
So you have now had a circa 14 hour outage.
Also random periods of time that last approx an hour that cause your service to be unresponsive.
That should be enough to make plusnet agree to investigate further.
Good luck.
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I'm forming the opinion that the lower power on the upstream (certainly in my case) is completely down to the ZyXEL VMG8x24.
If you look at my last 60 days on MDWS (Minted) you can see upstream power has dropped from 4.1dBm to as low as 0.9dBm.
On 6th July you can see it very briefly jumped to 4.2dBm. That was me briefly connecting the Huawei HG612.
Then 2 days ago it jumps back up to 3.7dBm. That's me switching to a ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A.
I believe both ZyXEL's use the same chipset, which differs to that in the HG612, so that isn't the cause.
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kitz having read what you said in the other thread, you have now had a long outage I would concentrate on that and not the speed when dealing with plusnet.
Ahh gotcha... that would be because I said "Just got in (my dsl has been down all day - see MDWS).", by that I meant I had just got in and sat down at the PC and why I hadnt been able to respond to the thread and a couple of PMs I'd got about it earlier.
My dsl was actually down because I was out all day a fair distance away, without any net access and I knew I wouldnt be back until very late evening.
So rather than risk my line throwing throwing a wobbly when I wasn't in a position to do anything about it, I turned by router off before I left.
:)
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blahh... didn't notice this in time today :(
Only posting because no doubt DLM will clobber me tomorrow and as a record to see how long it takes to remove this time.
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PS
Was able to stop it using the following commands rather than a modem power cycle.
adsl connection --down
adsl connection -up
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can't you automate that with dslstats?
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Not sure if I could without some additional scripts. It is a PITA and if I am using the PC I can usually spot it erroring because everything is so slow.
However I wasn't using the PC at the time so didn't notice until later on in the afternoon when trying to access websites was like wading through treacle.
Its why if Im out for the whole day I will usually turn the modem off, but as I was only away for a few hours I didn't bother... but too late damage done.
Of course DLM noticed and my 73Mbps has now been reduced to 67.6Mbps due to INP=3. However, even though it is annoying and the line is now fine again, I'm not going to stress about it and just hope DLM relents. I'm only posting more as a reminder for me to see how long it takes. Still no idea what causes the daily spike though.
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Upstream & Downstream SNRM oscillation showing since switching the modem off to-day ???
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Cheers NS. I've just looked and so it is :(
I was out all day yesterday and had turned the modem off knowing that if it went into freak mode I wouldn't be able to do anything. Didn't get back until late last night, switched modem on because I needed wifi for the Echo to control heating/lighting without looking at the line stats.
Will power down the modem in a few mins to see if I can get rid of it.
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Hmm a power down of the modem doesnt seem to have fixed it and right now its oscilating between 6.3dB and 5.6dB on a slightly lower sync of exactly 67500. :-\
It probably needs a longer period of time disconnected to clear, but I have several things I need to do today which need an internet connection. :(
Whilst DLM applying INP may have stopped the daily Err/Sec spike, it is only masking it and as you can see below it is still there.... but this time it racked up ~140k of FECs.
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Whilst DLM applying INP may have stopped the daily Err/Sec spike, it is only masking it and as you can see below it is still there.... but this time it racked up ~140k of FECs.
Why do we take this kind of attitude towards anything that the DLM does? We could say that pretty much anything that the DLM does is only masking a problem, implying that there shouldn't be any DLM at all. Or, as far as the DLM can tell, you had a problem causing lots of errors, so the DLM increased the level of error protection, effectively solving the problem, the errors are now corrected, and the service should no longer be affected - the DLM did exactly what it is supposed to do.
The DLM will not be aware that most of the errors seem to be due to something getting stuck in a weird state.
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:-X I was only saying that whatever is causing it, is still obviously there. I'm not obsessing over it or chasing my ISP, was more mentioning it because I was seeing how long DLM takes to remove.
Whatever it is is a PITA, because aside from the one minute period per day, the line is OK and doesnt need any DLM interaction. Just that sometimes that one minute spike, causes the line to freak out for a while. By the time DLM takes action, the line will always be stable again and in no need of DLM.
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had a spike myself last night I assumed I am screwed, but I might just be ok even with sky only using the standard profile.
MDWS shows 1371 ES for the day, just below the 1440 sky profile limit.
No idea what triggered it SNRM didnt dip at the time.
Since a very brief power cut this morning (less than one second) it also looks like someone's modem has dropped out as well as my crosstalk dropped off as well.
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:-X I was only saying that whatever is causing it, is still obviously there. I'm not obsessing over it or chasing my ISP, was more mentioning it because I was seeing how long DLM takes to remove.
Whatever it is is a PITA, because aside from the one minute period per day, the line is OK and doesnt need any DLM interaction. Just that sometimes that one minute spike, causes the line to freak out for a while. By the time DLM takes action, the line will always be stable again and in no need of DLM.
Yep I have said this for a while.
A more useful DLM would take action "right away" whilst the errors are occurring, it would also recover the line quickly (at least on first time events for say 30 days).
The DLM as it is now will wait until the next day so "hours" after the event and can leave the line crippled for days at a time when the problem is long gone. (interleaving, I know banding is way longer).
So not sure why ejs replied the way in he did.
--edit--
Outside my neighbours front door the entire pavement is dug up, I looked for signs and I think its possibly power company related, so this is the likely cause, however I just rang the council to moan, because its taking the entire width of the pavement which is quite wide and forcing people to walk on the main road. No workers there today so seems no urgency to close it up which I am not happy with. Will be an issue for me personally with my walking aid if its still there next week.
--edit--
Impressed council came out, they agreed is H&S issue, parents taking children on main road to get by, scooters etc, and with sunlight glaring in peoples eyes, he rang the power company, and he said if they dont clear it by end of day, the council will do it themselves and charge the power company. Is off topic, but thought I would give update.
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Line resync'd this morning. Exactly 14 days for DLM to reverse its action.
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Upstream & Downstream SNRM oscillation showing since switching the modem off to-day ???
Despite me trying several times to clear this myself - including leaving the modem switch off for a few hours, I could just not get this to clear and the oscillations have persisted the whole time since DLM caused my line to resync and apply FEC.
This morning its gone - SNRM is once again straight lining. The difference being that this time it was DSLAM that dropped my connection and caused the resync.
Thus conclusion (and not for the first time!) as far as the oscillations are concerned, whatever it is causing it always starts and usually only ends at the remote end.
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had a spike myself last night I assumed I am screwed, but I might just be ok even with sky only using the standard profile.
MDWS shows 1371 ES for the day, just below the 1440 sky profile limit.
Just had a look at your MDWS stats. Luckily for you, it looks like you escaped by the skin of your teeth :)
A more useful DLM would take action "right away" whilst the errors are occurring.
Unfortunately don't ever see that happening, I don't think ANY DLM systems are capable of taking action so quickly as most modern systems rely on MTBE & MTBR over the course of the day. It is damn annoying for me though, that every single time DLM takes action my line has already recovered and therefore no longer needs any DLM action.
it would also recover the line quickly (at least on first time events for say 30 days).
It does (for INP). First time it happened it took 24 hrs of MTBE of green. The whole point of me recording what is happening is not as some may think to complain, but more as a point of recording so it can be publicly seen what DLM is doing.
So far
1st offence. Recovery 24hrs
2nd offence. Recovery 10 days
3rd offence. Recovery 14 days.
4th offence. Recovery 14 days. It may have duplicated the 14 days as it is some months since it last took any action as I've normally been able to catch it before the MTBE goes over the limit.
I'm happyish with that - seems fair in the grand scheme of things. From what Ive observed on other lines next step will be a month or more.
MTBE & INP appears to be working fine. MBTR (resyncs & banding) doesnt :(
I know banding is way longer).
I started to make a reply to one of your posts in another thread before Xmas related to this. Unfortunately my hands got too sore and I never got to finishing it. I think I still have most of it in notepad somewhere, I may just post as it is in the relevant thread rather than delay further.
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I'm confident you will find away to stop the modem seeing those odd errored seconds ramping up from 9am to 11am, you should not have to go down this path if the BB circuit was normal, the more times I see this happen on your line it point's to a dodgy port on the line card and neighbors may also may be seeing the same thing who are on the same card.
And I know how difficult it is to get your ISP to ask OR to look into a possible line card fault, Spikes of CRC's which turn into errored seconds DSLAM sends you to Interleaved SNRM starts Oscillating 14 day later DSLAM sends you back to fastpath SNRM stops Oscillating ::)
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Hi NS
My thought is it is not a line card issue (sorry if I’m wrong)
I think it is localised and may well cause the same issue on neighbouring connections
I think this because it only happens within a few hours each day, and from my understanding, a drop/reconnect resolves issue, so it has to be local to kitz and/or neighbours as it is very short term
Many thanks
John
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I think NS is talking about one of the other symptoms I've been seeing for a long time which is oscillating SNRM. That always starts after the line has been dropped remotely, ie DSLAM end. I tried several times last week to clear it myself by disconnecting the line here and even leaving it switched off for a while. That did not clear until the DSLAM removed FEC, so in that respect he is correct that I only got the Oscillating SNRM whilst the line had Interleaving applied
The other issue of the daily spike is separate. When it first started a few years ago.. it was usually around 10.30ish, but over the past year the time has been more random. That daily spike has been there for years, but it causing the line to stick and continue producing the CRC and Err Secs is more recentl
I could be wrong because the high E/Secs only happens occasionally to be certain about this, but I think that only started after I was swapped over to a new pair.
The 'new' pair syncs lower than the old pair did, but it has less range of oscillations than the old pair. ie range of about 1dB, the old pair oscillated by anything up to 3dB. I was a bit fobbed off by the OR Engineer who knew this was the last available pair and I was told to see how it went for a week or two, because really it needed new cable pulling through and he said he couldn't do that on that particular day. In the meantime my MGAL reduced so although on occasions I fall below the BTw estimates for my line, PN wont do anything about it because its still above the MGAL.
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I've noticed in the last few months I'm getting this a few times in the day.
If you take a look at Angel-Rex on MDWS and set to 5 days the pattern has been quite regular.
My DS has also been dropped from 37mb sync to 29mb - Any thoughts?
Should I call this into SKY to get investigated?
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Whilst I can see the spikes, I think contacting your ISP would be a waste of time.
Mine have been going on for a few years now and I can't get to the bottom of it. Your spikes are smaller than mine and also insufficient to even take you out of ILQ green. (see below for compare) Mine run into the thousands and quite often by the end of the day it will have affected my ILQ status, yet there is nothing that can be done at the Openreach end.. which is why I'm trying to manage it myself before it goes ILQ red. :/
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This thread had information about setting up error notifications from DSLstats to notify my phone so I could remote resync the line.
Because this became rather a long discussion, it is deemed worthy of a thread in its own right.
I've split off any posts about notifications and moved them to a new thread here :- Using DSLstats to detect line errors and force line to resync (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20831.0.html)
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As a follow up - My line went mad at 9am on Sunday :/ Showing a minus SNR and everything!
I called the ISP who has arranged a fibre engineer to come Wednesday. I had to re-install the SKY SR102 router so they could diagnose the line on Sunday but I managed to get some of the info on MDWS in case anyone was interested.
My ES and CRC errors are in the thousands :( Hopefully this won't mess up my line completely.