Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTH Issues => Topic started by: banger on April 06, 2017, 06:42:46 PM

Title: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 06, 2017, 06:42:46 PM
Some of you may have read in another thread that I am only sync'ing at 45 and I put my number in BT Retail site and they guarantee me a minimum of 60.

I also would like my underground feed (Single pair DW3, 30 metres) replaced with a current spec twisted pair.

Openreach has been today and found that I am losing 13mbps on this underground feed as he tested sync at the jointing post and it was 53mbps, 40mbps at the test socket in my house.

He is coming back tomorrow with his mate and some cable and they are going to try to replace it but while testing in an underground box a few feet away from my property and sync here was 67mbps. This means also some street underground wiring will need to be replaced.

He also mentioned he doesn't know if this will cost me anything and needs to speak to his manager, anyone in Openreach confirm that everything after the master socket is at Openreach cost?

Just copied from Thinkbroadband forums as may be other people following this.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 06, 2017, 06:46:21 PM
Methinks you're getting the 'before' and 'after' confused ??  ;)

The circuit originates from the Exchange, therefore anything 'after' the NTE is in your premises and is your responsibility. Anything before the NTE you are covered for by your rental costs for fair wear & tear ..... if you've put an axe through the cable (a once often occurrence around my area, not so much these days  ??? ), then of course charges will be incurred.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 06, 2017, 07:37:31 PM
Yes you are correct so the Mk4 master socket he fitted today will be billed to me? He also reconnected extensions but no other wiring. My ISP says what you said too. There is no damage to the line just an under spec couple of wires in the street and under my drive. If they could get me up to 67 or thereabouts as measured in the street box just before my house that would be great.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 06, 2017, 07:43:10 PM
The installing of the MK4 should be gratis, as it is bringing your circuit (at that particular point) up to best spec.

Regarding the rest of the work, I couldn't comment as I don't know the full circumstances ??  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 06, 2017, 11:06:57 PM
How long does it take for engineer's notes to get to the ISP?
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Weaver on April 07, 2017, 01:06:43 AM
Not long, in my experience. A lot less than 24 hours.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 07, 2017, 03:18:10 PM
Engineers have been re-tested sync and have arranged for my drive to be dug up for new telephone cable
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 07, 2017, 09:43:31 PM
OR contractors will come in with a concrete saw to make 2 parallel cuts on the route the UG takes on driveway then they dig it away to expose old duct, and OR should have had line feed disconnected at both ends then remove the old duct and existing feed.

New duct is then placed with a pull through cord exposed and cavity is then filled in, next the new UG feed is pulled through the duct using the cord and the UG feed is then terminated by OR at both ends
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 07, 2017, 10:44:47 PM
Was wondering how they would do it. Only question left is when. Job number was allocated today.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 07, 2017, 11:37:14 PM
Was wondering how they would do it. Only question left is when. Job number was allocated today.

Well Openreach will need to contact the contractor and the contractor will then give them a date and time slot for your driveway Job as both party's will need to be involved at the same time.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 08, 2017, 08:31:09 AM
Well Openreach will need to contact the contractor and the contractor will then give them a date and time slot for your driveway Job as both party's will need to be involved at the same time.

NB: It is very, very rare we are in attendance at the same time.

The usual course this would take is ... contractors turn up and do the job at hand, they then inform their contract management team their remit has been completed.
They in turn will then inform OR, who will resurrect the original fault at put it back in the workstacks for a suitably qualified engineer to pick it up and  carry out our bit.  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: WWWombat on April 08, 2017, 12:30:38 PM
If the contractor's job is to dig, replace duct, and fill in, then won't the copper end up cut in some way as a consequence?

I can't think of a way they can put new ducting in place without disconnecting the copper at some point.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 08, 2017, 04:09:46 PM
That is the way the engineer explained it to me but he said contractors will dig, he would come back and lay cable then they would come back and re-instate. If it happens like this I will be surprised.

Currently the cable is in white conduit underground so I am not sure if they will dig it up or just duct on top of it.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: anfield_92 on April 08, 2017, 09:39:19 PM
Most of the time the new duct is laid without touching the original feed, so once the contractors have laid the duct we will return, usually same or next day, to disconnect the old feed, pull a cable through the new duct and then connect it at both ends.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 08, 2017, 10:03:13 PM
If the contractor's job is to dig, replace duct, and fill in, then won't the copper end up cut in some way as a consequence?

I can't think of a way they can put new ducting in place without disconnecting the copper at some point.

The original feed is usually 'Direct In Ground' (DIG) cable. As such, this very same cable will be left intact whilst the remedial duct work is taking place, and subsequently, after it has been completed.

The new duct will be placed form point A to point B and will have a draw-rope pulled through its length by the Contactors ..... we then attach a new cable to the draw-rope, and terminate at both ends. Ergo, new connection for EU and old cable left in the ground and totally redundant.  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 11, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Waiting for Council Approval for dig, which I am surprised at as its private property. OR advised takes about 5 days and will advise with a date further.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 11, 2017, 10:15:48 PM
Waiting for Council Approval for dig, which I am surprised at as its private property.

But not the pavement/roadway the other side of the boundary line.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 11, 2017, 10:17:25 PM
I'm not surprised as any work now done on owners premises needs the approval by Building Regulations 2012 granted by your local council and then inspected after the work has been completed.

We had a new Oil burner and Oil tank installed the contractor had to follow the local Council guide lines to the letter then only after an inspection from the Council it was passed with a certificate
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 11, 2017, 10:38:48 PM
But not the pavement/roadway the other side of the boundary line.

I am unsure if they are going beyond the boundary, I hope so as the first engineer was getting 67 at the first underground junction box which implies the cable from there to my jointing post where he was getting 53 is also suspect.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Ignitionnet on April 11, 2017, 11:05:10 PM
If you're in an area that's covered by it you should be able to find it on https://roadworks.org

I can assure that this work won't need approval from the local council for your section along with an inspection afterwards, it'll be work on the public pavement and/or carriageway to reach the property boundary.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 11, 2017, 11:47:44 PM
If you're in an area that's covered by it you should be able to find it on https://roadworks.org

I can assure that this work won't need approval from the local council for your section along with an inspection afterwards, it'll be work on the public pavement and/or carriageway to reach the property boundary.

Yes I have been watching that site for updates, it how I found out the date for my water meter. Maybe they are planning to replace the street cable as well, as one engineer tested in the first junction box before my property and got 67 on his equipment then 53 on the jointing post at the boundary of my property then 40 inside my house. So maybe they are replacing street cable after all, hope so.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Ignitionnet on April 12, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
I'm not surprised as any work now done on owners premises needs the approval by Building Regulations 2012 granted by your local council and then inspected after the work has been completed.

We had a new Oil burner and Oil tank installed the contractor had to follow the local Council guide lines to the letter then only after an inspection from the Council it was passed with a certificate

This isn't for all work. Obviously screwups with oil burners and tanks can result in mushroom clouds so regulations there are fair enough, but for telecomms work no such requirements. If these were the case Virgin Media would need permission for each and every install that involved digging.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 19, 2017, 10:54:00 AM
The dig has begun. :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Chrysalis on April 19, 2017, 01:40:58 PM
good :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 19, 2017, 06:16:31 PM
https://ibb.co/e63JgQ
https://ibb.co/mcoC85
https://ibb.co/b4Rcak
https://ibb.co/bCDC85
https://ibb.co/ctBX85
https://ibb.co/h6mAvk

Some pics of dig, lads said Openreach tomorrow.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 19, 2017, 06:38:46 PM
That is more work than I was expecting are they leaving the old duct in place ?
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Ronski on April 19, 2017, 07:06:54 PM
I expect they will - cheaper for them just to leave it there than dispose of it, unless they pull it after the new cables run in and connected.

Looks like the old duct stops short of the house, I wonder if there's a join there - looks like something covering the end of the duct.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: j0hn on April 19, 2017, 07:36:14 PM
It's more than I had imagined also. That's quite a long run from your property to the pavement.
are they leaving the old duct in place ?
My guess would be that OpenReach will come next, pull through his new cable in the new duct and connect it. Then the contractors will return and remove the old ducting. His line will still be active in the old duct while today's work was being carried out. Will be interesting to see if the works affected the circuit at all.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 19, 2017, 07:40:56 PM
I expect they will - cheaper for them just to leave it there than dispose of it, unless they pull it after the new cables run in and connected.

Looks like the old duct stops short of the house, I wonder if there's a join there - looks like something covering the end of the duct.

Smaller piece of duct for about 6 inches then DW6 goes straight into the earth for about another 6 inches then into a metal pipe under the path which my dad had put in for the cable.

Not sure if the old duct will be removed after new cable run. Also on roadworks.org there is a works notice for 2m poly duct under the footway outside my boundary so looks like that cable is also being replaced from underground chamber to jointing post on my property.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 19, 2017, 07:44:35 PM
It's more than I had imagined also. That's quite a long run from your property to the pavement.My guess would be that OpenReach will come next, pull through his new cable in the new duct and connect it. Then the contractors will return and remove the old ducting. His line will still be active in the old duct while today's work was being carried out. Will be interesting to see if the works affected the circuit at all.

I have lost sync today and sync gone down from 54 to 51 d/s. U/s about the same at 11.3.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 20, 2017, 04:31:52 PM
New twisted 2 pair is in, old sync with G.INP 55/11 new sync with new cable 66/19. Pleased its all sorted apart from contractors need to come back and fill in the trench.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 20, 2017, 05:54:56 PM
New twisted 2 pair is in,

Just a quick query to check . . . it is a two pair cable? Four conductors, arranged as two pairs? I was expecting a five-pair cable to be used, so perhaps it is a reflection upon the price of copper.

Quote
old sync with G.INP 55/11 new sync with new cable 66/19. Pleased its all sorted apart from contractors need to come back and fill in the trench.

That's a nice uplift in synchronisation speed.  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 20, 2017, 06:04:30 PM
Just a quick query to check . . . it is a two pair cable? Four conductors, arranged as two pairs? I was expecting a five-pair cable to be used, so perhaps it is a reflection upon the price of copper.

That's a nice uplift in synchronisation speed.  :)

Openreach said 2 pair but from underground chamber to jointing post is only 1 pair so if I want another line that will need replacing.

Nice sync increase for 33m of cable. This now brings me in line with the Uno estimate for my line when signing up and I am also pleased about the 9meg increase in upload.

Was originally 46/11 before G.INP kicked in.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: j0hn on April 20, 2017, 06:46:02 PM
It's definitely not 1 pair? That would be extremely odd. The minimum they would use would be a 2 pair cable, but they often use 5 pair.

Do OpenReach even have a 2 core, 1 pair cable for underground feeds?
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 20, 2017, 06:58:55 PM
Not exactly sure what you mean John but Openreach bod replaced my underground feed which was DW6 1 pair (grey) with 2 pair underground twisted pair (black). Maybe from the underground chamber (put in in the 60s) is DW6 as Openreach bod didn't say, just said it was 1 pair thick copper but was twisted pair. Unless he was just trying to shut me up.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 20, 2017, 07:08:48 PM
Can't fathom out bangers original set-up for love-nor-money ............ however, todays preferred methodology is to use 2-pr UG cable. We do have 5pr, but for costing reasons it would indeed be madness to put this in where a 2pr is sufficient.

The dropwire that will connect to the end of the UG cable and then into the premises, will be 1pr...... again, it is purely down to costings.  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 20, 2017, 11:20:30 PM
Can't fathom out bangers original set-up for love-nor-money ............ however, todays preferred methodology is to use 2-pr UG cable. We do have 5pr, but for costing reasons it would indeed be madness to put this in where a 2pr is sufficient.

The dropwire that will connect to the end of the UG cable and then into the premises, will be 1pr...... again, it is purely down to costings.  :)

Have you not seen the pictures earlier in this thread? 33m of DW6 underground next to gas and electric feeds picking up all sorts of noise from electric I would think. Originally put in by a BT contractor in the early 80s. Today's Openreach engineer said he started in '85 on this patch and hadn't put any DW6 in at all so must have been early 80s when the line was reconnected.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 21, 2017, 12:27:49 PM
Alas, time is precious and looking at photo's on this old works laptop takes too much time. My main concern is that you mention 33mtrs of DW6 being used 'underground'. This cable was designed purely for overhead/cable on wall purposes.

I'm a 30+yr man and have never, ever come across DW6 being used in this manner .... that is why I was confused over your description.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 22, 2017, 10:46:31 PM
Have the contractors come back and cemented relayed the flagstones on your drive way ?
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 22, 2017, 11:03:31 PM
Not yet. Openreach promised it would be returned to its original state but contractors were supposed to come back yesterday but nothing. One bloke turned up Thursday to put sand down and then on the afternoon Openreach did the cable but nothing since.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 22, 2017, 11:48:51 PM
Openreach promised it would be returned to its original state

I am sure it will be as you also have the local council permit a Job like yours should have been completed within 2 days from start to finish on Friday 21st.
Hopefully they will back 1st thing Monday morning to finish the Job  :fingers:
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 23, 2017, 12:36:52 AM
Hope so bit of a mess out there at the moment, any burglars will be falling down holes. :D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 24, 2017, 04:46:34 PM
Contractors have begun putting my drive back together. :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: kitz on April 24, 2017, 09:18:46 PM
 :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 25, 2017, 03:03:05 PM
It now seems I am on a 5db target margin as I had a resync at 10am and my reading is now 5db with 68 sync.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 25, 2017, 04:50:00 PM
It now seems I am on a 5db target margin as I had a resync at 10am and my reading is now 5db with 68 sync.

 :hmm:  Hmm, I think I have already read your latest update . . . I wonder where that was?  ;)

How soon after the resynchronisation event was the SNRM observed? Seconds? Minutes? or ?

As you appreciate, it is necessary to make the observation promptly after the synchronised state has been achieved.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 25, 2017, 05:50:12 PM
I wonder where you read that. :D

MWDS seems to indicate just after the resync target was 5db and has remained around that all day.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 25, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
MWDS seems to indicate just after the resync target was 5db and has remained around that all day.

So you are able to confirm that a SNRM datum point was harvested not later than a minute after the resynchronisation event had occurred. in view of that fact, I am happy to agree that your circuit's target SNRM does, indeed, appear to be 5 dB.

A subsidiary, rhetorical, question would be: "How low will it go?". We must watch and wait.  :)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 27, 2017, 08:25:13 PM
Connection speed (kbps):   73353      19070
SNR margin (dB):           3.7      5.9
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 27, 2017, 08:50:45 PM
That is a big increase of sync with a SNRM target margin of 3dB and with attenuation of 19dB though the errored seconds have gone up quite a bit but still in the amber zone for all DLM profiles
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 27, 2017, 08:53:30 PM
It is despite engineer saying I would get 55 tops and I think its supposed to be 4dB wonder if in a couple of days it will actually go to 3dB or stick at 4dB.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 27, 2017, 09:13:12 PM
You could be right I can only see 2 steps of SNRM decrements from 5.7dB (6.0db) - 5dB and then 3.9dB so the next one could be 2.9dB your DS SNRM jumps about thought out the day which is causing the graph & me confusion.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 27, 2017, 09:49:15 PM
My suspicion is that the target SNRM will not be reduced any further. (Though I'll be happy to be proven wrong!  ;)  )
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 27, 2017, 10:03:56 PM
My suspicion is that the target SNRM will not be reduced any further. (Though I'll be happy to be proven wrong!  ;)  )

I tend to agree with ES creeping in.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 27, 2017, 10:58:29 PM
Do you think future crosstalk will come into play and take 10Mbs of sync away  :-\
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 27, 2017, 11:02:52 PM
I am hoping not. The cabinet serves my estate which I am hoping will have relatively few users and this is reflected in it being funded by Digital Durham.

Only time will tell. :|
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: lee111s on April 28, 2017, 09:24:58 AM
I am hoping not. The cabinet serves my estate which I am hoping will have relatively few users and this is reflected in it being funded by Digital Durham.

Only time will tell. :|

Why should how it was funded make any difference on the number of subscribers?

Usually, BDUK cabs are for those with poor speeds, thus MORE users are likely to upgrade.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: WWWombat on April 28, 2017, 01:01:01 PM
My suspicion is that the target SNRM will not be reduced any further. (Though I'll be happy to be proven wrong!  ;)  )
I tend to agree with ES creeping in.

The other error-related graphs show the impact building up:
- B0 FEC
- G-Retransmit TX
- B0 CRC Errors

This last change looks like a step too far.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 28, 2017, 03:25:54 PM
Now showing red on standard on MWDS which I believe I am on and 1000 ES today so far but no retrains so far this little WD9970 hangs on to sync well.

As WWWombat says maybe a step too far.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 28, 2017, 05:12:29 PM
Now showing red on standard on MWDS which I believe I am on and 1000 ES today so far but no retrains so far this little WD9970 hangs on to sync well.

I would expect the DLM to "cough up a fur-ball" quite soon and then raise the target SNRM by one dB.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 28, 2017, 06:02:27 PM
Yes from what I have read so far on Kitz DLM pages I am expecting some sort of intervention. As long as it isn't banding. :D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: WWWombat on April 28, 2017, 07:35:46 PM
I'd really hope that, given things went bad because of the 5-4-3dB adjustment, that we get to seen a sane step backwards. Nothing extreme...
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 29, 2017, 01:21:31 AM
Why should how it was funded make any difference on the number of subscribers?

Usually, BDUK cabs are for those with poor speeds, thus MORE users are likely to upgrade.

My reasoning was that it was seen as non profitable for BT so had to be funded by government so not a lot of subscribers. Plus its an estate of a lot of older people not particularly interested in broadband.

Only time will tell.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Ronski on April 29, 2017, 07:45:57 AM
You can see how many lines your PCP  serves using this website

https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: lee111s on April 29, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
My reasoning was that it was seen as non profitable for BT so had to be funded by government so not a lot of subscribers. Plus its an estate of a lot of older people not particularly interested in broadband.

Only time will tell.

359 lines connected to that cab.

Even if only average takeup of 20%, that's still 70 subscribers.

It only takes 1 crosstalker in the "wrong" place in the bundle to have a big impact on sync speed.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 29, 2017, 02:43:03 PM
Fairy nuff. It was just a hope.

On another matter looks like a re-sync just occurred at 13.31 taking my target margin back to 5dB and 68 sync. Still that's better than 46 when I started this FTTC journey.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: lee111s on April 29, 2017, 05:13:26 PM
Just use the connection. Try not to become an obsessor ;D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: Black Sheep on April 29, 2017, 08:50:14 PM
He knows ^^^^  ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 29, 2017, 09:19:07 PM
I know but its quite difficult not to obsess. I have an obsessive personality.  ;D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 29, 2017, 09:26:47 PM
Most regular people on a broadband forum suffer the same obsessive disorder they just don't want to admit it  ;)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: WWWombat on April 30, 2017, 12:43:30 PM
On another matter looks like a re-sync just occurred at 13.31 taking my target margin back to 5dB and 68 sync.

That definitely looks like a nice, single step backwards. All error rates returned to the previous 5dB step, and look manageable.

You seemed to get 800 ES's on the first partial day, 18 hours, and 1800 ES's on the next full day. That was enough to kick you backwards one step, but obviously not enough to throw you out to a 6dB setting.

That's the first time I've seen the 5-4-3dB DLM have to make a recovery step, and I'm relieved to see that it behaved with sanity.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 30, 2017, 04:27:44 PM
That definitely looks like a nice, single step backwards. All error rates returned to the previous 5dB step, and look manageable.

Agreed. I checked on MDWS, before I read the updates to this thread, and, from what I saw there, it appears to show the circuit behaving as it should.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 30, 2017, 05:42:38 PM
This new SNRM 5-4-3dB to me has not been a full roll out across the UK it's now 2 month on now more like a very slow & cautious roll out
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: burakkucat on April 30, 2017, 05:48:00 PM
. . . now more like a very slow & cautious roll out

Has it now reached your region?  :-\
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 30, 2017, 05:57:05 PM
Has it now reached your region?  :-\

Nothing that I can see
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 30, 2017, 08:01:22 PM
Well hope it settles at 4dB, looks like 68 is my top sync, still better than 46 when I first started this journey.  ;D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on April 30, 2017, 09:00:46 PM
I can imagine Clint Eastwood with his husky voice saying "A lines got to know it's limitations"  :)
Banger you must mean 5dB as you only got to 4dB when the carp hit the fan.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on April 30, 2017, 09:01:54 PM
 :D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 09, 2017, 03:14:49 PM
Looks like DLM might be trying again after 8 days uptime, now around the 4db mark but seeing errors, low es at the moment, will monitor.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 13, 2017, 07:43:07 PM
DLM has knocked me down to 3dB but error rates have shot up into thousands from about 20 a day I was seeing on 4dB, sync now 73923. DLM is trying its best to get me to stay at 3dB. Seeing an Amber light on MWDS for DLM so either it will sit and monitor or reduce back to 4dB.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 13, 2017, 09:10:21 PM
Have been watching your DS SNRM over the past 3 days it seems to be like clockwork a large dip every 2 hours 23 mins I wonder if you can shed some light into what is going on in your location for this to happen  ???
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 13, 2017, 09:14:14 PM
Interesting, nothing is that regular apart from a download test but that is every 2 hours.

Hot water is on 8-9 then 3-4pm but nothing is set to go off every 2 hours 23.

Only thing I can think of is the modem and a problem with it.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 13, 2017, 09:27:48 PM
What ever is causing this only started to become very noticeable on the 9th of May 21:00
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 13, 2017, 09:49:36 PM
Only thing I can think of is Fridge Freezer gone faulty but could be anything might even in the street.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 13, 2017, 09:59:10 PM
Something to keep an eye on as this looks like short REIN burst, anyway you have more to look at as your errored seconds have hit 2 reds out of 3 so maybe back to 4dB in a few days
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 13, 2017, 10:11:05 PM
Openreach did say there was REIN on the line but only between certain times. With the target being reduced maybe it has become more apparent.

But with a red on standard probably go back to 4dB.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 13, 2017, 10:36:29 PM
It says your with Daisy who use the speed DLM profile now if the DLM still uses the same algorithm when on adjustable 6 to 3dB target margin then 2880+ ES should be your threshold.

nice to see you keep your MDWS account live 24/7 as that is very helpful to gain some insight in the workings of this beast  ;)
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 13, 2017, 10:40:33 PM
I am on Uno who call it TTB but Openreach engineer who came said he was working for Talk Talk who were hired by Daisy so could be right.

I thought I was on Standard but I bow to your knowledge if Daisy is on the Speed profile and always thinking that Openreach have not changed the error thresholds.

Will watch and see.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 14, 2017, 04:43:34 PM
From what I can see to-day your SNRM has been moved back to 4dB and you reached a grand total of 1800 ES yesterday definitely suggests your on the DLM Standard profile even though MDWS say otherwise. 
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 14, 2017, 06:35:46 PM
Yes I see that and it looks like DLM acted pretty fast as soon as it saw the ES.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: WWWombat on May 14, 2017, 06:57:43 PM
I am heartened2 to see that DLM reacted sensibly a second time!
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 14, 2017, 09:24:25 PM
Me too seems a reasonably sensible Algorithm.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: tbailey2 on May 15, 2017, 10:15:24 AM
From what I can see to-day your SNRM has been moved back to 4dB and you reached a grand total of 1800 ES yesterday definitely suggests your you're on the DLM Standard profile even though MDWS say says otherwise.

If you look more carefully, you'll see the DLM popup says it doesn't know what profile he is on (since it hasn't been defined anywhere with certainty) - the clue is in the question mark (?) after the Profile name. If you then look at the description below it explains this and says it defaults to Speed.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 15, 2017, 03:54:03 PM
Thanks for that Tony I was wondering about that. :D
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 15, 2017, 10:20:57 PM
It's amazing the amount of ES increase when DLM reduces to 3dB and very few on 4dB, I must be on the threshold of some REIN from somewhere when DLM reduces to 3dB.

All green lights on the DLM indicator now at 4dB and ES in the order of >10 ES/24.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: NewtronStar on May 16, 2017, 12:41:35 AM
So we know your circuit does not like going to 3dB but I guess in 2-8 days time it will try again and keep going round in circles 3dB 4dB 3dB and so on, now surly the DLM has enough info on your circuit to say we can't give him 3dB as it causes's to many errored seconds the DLM seems stupid  to me if it keeps going on like this.
Title: Re: My Fault- Update
Post by: banger on May 16, 2017, 12:52:43 AM
Yes does seem a bit silly trying 3dB again but maybe the Algorithm will try a few times to see what conditions are like for my circuit, to see if the errors settle down to a minimum level then stick at 4dB. Only time will tell, I will keep monitoring.