Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: divybc on January 17, 2017, 07:45:13 PM
-
Hello, people. I just have a question I was hoping some experienced guys can answer.
I recently just decided my house needed a shape up in terms of phone sockets and extensions goes due to my master being at no mains or in fact nowhere near one. So with that being said, I paid for an ex BT engineer to come round for a decent price and hook everything up.
Here is what he done I will try my best to explain and provide pics if needed.
So the original master is still the same socket, no changes in appearance. He has connected my income wire onto another wire, ran that into the room where the broadband is predominantly used and put the master there with an MK3 pre-filtered plate on for the fibre.
After this, he said he will make sure it "doubles back" and the old master will be technically an extension just for the house phone.
Effectively he has left me with 2 masters and said this is how any engineer would do this. He was a real nice chap and seemed knowledgeable and very easy to talk to, I'm just not sure about it as I read up online (bt forums specifically) saying this is frowner upon yet I have no idea why because I am not seeing any issues.
Opinions?
Cheers!
-
Sorry, just noticed can someone please move this to sockets and wiring?
[Moderator note: Moved, as suggested.]
-
Effectively he has left me with 2 masters and said this is how any engineer would do this.
I wouldn't agree with that.
Technically he's not allowed to do what he's done. Only OpenReach are meant to touch anything before the master socket, including extending the incoming feed to a new master socket. That new bit of cable extending your incoming feed is now OpenReach's side of the master socket, and so part of their network. I would hope he used the same cable OpenReach do.
-
He used wire with blue, green, brown and orange. Not the same I believe.
He did work for openreach for 20 years so idk what to do really.
You reckon if I ever need openreach (touch wood this has no issues) they would have a problem with my setup?
I could technically just say I moved in here like this?
-
Twenty years ago Openreach did not exist, so I shall presume he is ex-BT engineering staff. :-\
Hopefully he has converted the original "master socket" into a standard secondary extension, by removing the resistive - capacitive shunt from across the pair. No competent member of BT staff, former or current, would leave a telephony circuit doubly terminated.
If the circuit is working to your satisfaction, then leave well alone. If necessary, you could be totally ignorant of the wiring set-up . . . there are a few of us who would check such things before buying a property. But, on average, we are few and far between! ;)
-
Phone rings, talks fine and zoe said it's working properly. It dials out fine, no issues at all.
Broadband is synched at 80/20 for over 7 hours now and doesn't drop when the phone rings. Safe to say nothing is wrong?
Just if a fault ever occurred and I needed openreach I don't want this to be a hurdle.
Thanks for that burakkucat!
-
Phone rings, talks fine and zoe said it's working properly. It dials out fine, no issues at all.
Broadband is synched at 80/20 for over 7 hours now and doesn't drop when the phone rings. Safe to say nothing is wrong?
Yes, that's a fairly safe assumption to make.
Just if a fault ever occurred and I needed openreach I don't want this to be a hurdle.
In that case, to paraphrase Manuel; "you know nothing, you come from Barcelona". :D
-
Haha, appreciate the help :)
Thanks a lot.
-
With respect to multiple terminations on one circuit (capacitor/resistor), isn't that effectively what happens when you use a plugin filter in each socket?
-
With respect to multiple terminations on one circuit (capacitor/resistor), isn't that effectively what happens when you use a plugin filter in each socket?
I would also be intereted to discuss that point, as I am inclined to agree. Or have we discussed it elsewhere?
I did once encounter a real problem caused, in part, by a house builder that had fitted a second master socket. The thing was, in addition to having a second master, the builder had also managed to accidentally swap the line pair between the two sockets. This leads to the two capacitors in series shunting the pair, via the ring wire in the middle, with no series resistor. That was pre DSL, but it pretty much killed dialup modem connections too, even the voice audio sounded muffled. :)
Also shunted by two resistors of course, but that was fairly harmless, it was the cap's that did the damage.
-
I'm no expert on the subject, but I suspect that the capacitor and resistor values in the plug-in filters are different to those used in the master socket, because the plug-in is only expected to support a single phone (with a REN of 1, probably) whereas the master socket supports a REN of 4.
-
To the best of my knowledge, a plug-in microfilter will just have a capacitor between the B-wire and the "bell"-wire of the telephony socket. There won't be a resistor between the "bell"-wire and the A-wire.
-
To the best of my knowledge, a plug-in microfilter will just have a capacitor between the B-wire and the "bell"-wire of the telephony socket. There won't be a resistor between the "bell"-wire and the A-wire.
Agreed, but this will still place multiple 1.8uF capacitors across the line if you have phones plugged into them (assuming the phones use a 3 wire connection, which many modern ones don't).
:)
-
I haven't had any connection issues thus far, seems to be working as expected. I guess he has done the job to a good standard whether it be the correct way or the wrong way.
-
Agreed, but this will still place multiple 1.8uF capacitors across the line if you have phones plugged into them (assuming the phones use a 3 wire connection, which many modern ones don't).
Which is one reason why a centralised filter is strongly recommended.
-
It further occurs to me, in the case of a filter vs an old fashioned master socket, the capacitor only needs to pickup the very low frequency ring pulses, so it will probably be connected to the telephony-side of the actual high frequency filtering mechanism. This ought to reduce any loading of the higher frequencies, i.e. DSL signals as presented unfiltered to the modem.
Whilst interested I have an uncomfortable deja-vu feeling about this whole topic. Was it discussed recently? Did I contribute? Am I repeating myself or worse..., am I contradicting myself? :-[
-
Yes, the bell capacitor is on the low frequency (voice) side of the filter so it shouldn't affect the high frequency data tones.
Certainly on a setup like mine, where the extensions are star wired, a centralised filter makes a big difference as it isolates the data side from what are effectively a number of bridge taps.
:)
-
Watching some late nite streams and internet goes all of a sudden. Called 17070 option 4 and it seems there is echo on my line and there may be a problem.
Looks like I spoke too soon 😐
-
Has you internet connection gone altogether is was it a short drop for a resync?
As it was late at night it might just be DLM still adjusting things for your rewired line.
:)
-
It wasnt DLM because it didnt resync. I just couldnt load any pages although the router said I was in sync. Its still doing the same today.
-
If I remember correctly, you have a combined modem/router.
My advice is for you to power off the modem/router and leave it off for 30 minutes. During the 30 minute power off period, perform a quiet line test (call 17070 and take the relevant option). Once the 30 minutes have passed, power on the modem/router and keep watch (make written notes) of the LEDs activity following the power on.
-
Gave it a go and no luck. Thanks for the suggestion.
I tracked the wire he installed and it turns out there was a staple cut right thru the middle of the sheathing! I have no idea why it worked in the first place, but test socket works fine.
1) Dismantled wiring and placed back into original master socket 5C and all back to BT standards from the external feed.
2) Phoned Sky to see if we can get this socket relocated by BT because it's just not any good there. The socket is literally isolated from any source of power and leave me without broadband unless I run some stupidly massive power extension about 15 meters across the floor.
They have logged a "fault" with OR who are attending tomorrow. She said she spoke with OR on the phone who said it's fine to raise it and they said the engineer should be able to relocate it for me tomorrow if he is a nice guy (tea and biscuits are ready) hopefully he see's my point that I just can't gain access to broadband without doing this unless I run an extension which I would have to fork out for.
If he doesn't do it, they will go thru the official process of getting it relocated (2nd time lucky if you've ready my other post in FTTC problems) by OR.
All of this is no callout charges to me no matter what as I am within my Sky contract which is nice to know.
I will let you guys know if I get my problem finally resolved tomorrow.
-
All good had an official BT OR master relocate. Couldn't have asked for a nicer guy to do the job.
-
All good had an official BT OR master relocate. Couldn't have asked for a nicer guy to do the job.
Thank you for the update. I'm pleased to know that the problem has been resolved. :)
Perhaps you might like to go to Openrach "Tell Us" web-page (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/contactus/tellussomething/tellus.do), scroll down to near the bottom and under the "Let us know how we did" heading, take the "send them a thank you message" link.
-
Thank you for the update. I'm pleased to know that the problem has been resolved. :)
Perhaps you might like to go to Openrach "Tell Us" web-page (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/contactus/tellussomething/tellus.do), scroll down to near the bottom and under the "Let us know how we did" heading, take the "send them a thank you message" link.
I have done so. He really was willing and prompt. He was officially there for a broadband fault and I just showed him the whole situation and he agreed with me and went ahead. Tested all afterward, tidied up and most importantly, didn't leave any noticeable gaps in my walls like previous guys (Qube) lol. He supported the same football team as me, so maybe this is why, but either way, great guy.
Thanks for the link!
-
Glad you have resolution, and I have to say ............ methinks you landed lucky.
We aren't supposed to re-position sockets for aesthetics purposes whilst working on a fault task, the job should officially have been presented to us from SKY as a 'Shift/Relocate of socket', on a provision order.
Just pointing out the rules here, in case other readers of this forum assume your scenario is the norm. :) :)