Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: broadstairs on December 06, 2016, 08:53:32 PM
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I am looking to see if there is a another option for me to move to instead of TT. I am a tad p***ed off with them as they sent me an email reminding my to renew my Value Line Rental but did not say that if I let it lapse I could not renew it without renewing my existing legacy contract. Their line rental is more than at least some others now, £18.95 IIRC. Currently my monthly cost now is £50.45/month including line rental Fibre Large (80/20) and unlimited UK landline calls 24x7.
Now I want FTTC with an 80/20 contract or maybe a 55/10 considering my attainable has dropped to about 55 now. But I also need to move the phone as well, keeping the number (changing it is NOT an option). A 40/2 contract is NOT an option as I do upload quite a bit on occasions.
So far I've looked at Plusnet but considering some of the recent comments on here I'm not keen. Also they want £4.00/month for anonymous call reject which is free with TT (as are all the privacy options like caller ID). Dont see how they can justify charging for privacy options.
I did not want to pay more than current TT price if possible and whoever I use must allow me to use my own router (none of this ISP supplied crap with open TR-069 and TR-064). A fixed IP would be nice but not essential and UK Customer Service would also be preferable.
Any suggestions?
Stuart
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for 55/10 you only got 2 choices
BT or plusnet
40/10 you can get with sky and origin/vodafone.
Some handsets now offer anonymous call reject, that may be better then paying extortion to CPs.
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Currently my monthly cost now is £50.45/month including line rental Fibre Large (80/20) and unlimited UK landline calls 24x7.
That is way to much for broadband 80/20 and Landline 24X7 and starting to see quite a few ISP's dropping the line rental charge, we had 24X7 (anytime calls) on EE but TBH this was not utilized to the full evening and weekend calls would have been better.
So With Vodafone you could get unlimited fibre 76/10 for £28 + £8 for anytime calls and caller ID is free with 1471 and 1571 for £36 or £33 if you ring from your Vodafone contract mobile though the £49 charge is compulsory >:(
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for 55/10 you only got 2 choices
BT or plusnet
Do Plusnet even offer 55/10? I thought that was just for current customers who were on the old 40/20 package.
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I'm sure TT have some cheaper deals but I've not looked yet as I am thinking of a move first. Trouble is they so want to push TV and I am simply not interested in it at all. Not interested in BT Sport either. Vodafone would be one idea but they have rubbish coverage where I live and not sure they even do 4G round here. The best mobile coverage here is EE which is what I have.
Stuart
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Why would Vodafones poor 4G coverage have any bearing on their FTTC?
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Why would Vodafones poor 4G coverage have any bearing on their FTTC?
It wouldn't but the comment about vodafone mobile contract seemed to imply a better price if you are with them for mobile.
Stuart
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Been able to 'wade through treacle' on the TT website to get a price for the latest deal applicable to me. Comes out at £37.00 per month fixed for 18 months including the speed boot to the 80/20 package and unlimited UK landline calls and the same free phone privacy features. It also says that after 3 months I can switch to any other TT package deal if I want/need to.
This does not look bad considering that quite a few others who also do phone deals charge for some things (anonymous call reject for example) which adds to the overall pricing when looking at similar fibre+phone deals.
Still thinking....
Stuart
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Depending how good your haggling is, you could still get the 80/20 fibre large + anytime calls to UK landline and mobiles for £28.75.
That is what I am currently paying for this package. If you are happy with the current service with talktalk that is one option.
The discounts they apply would be :
18 Months Half Price Unlimited UK Calls Boost
£7.00 Faster Fibre Discount for 18 Months
Fibre Speed Boost - Free for 18 Months
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Having read that other which ISP thread this morning Vodafone are definitely out of the running no matter what price. Not being guaranteed to be able to use own equipment is a complete no-no.
I'll not do anything now until after Xmas and then will contact TT and see what they are willing to offer. Unless something else comes up with a no brainer deal ;)
Stuart
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Uno Fibre+ 80/20 https://www.uno.net.uk/packages/fibre-broadband/ and phone https://www.uno.net.uk/packages/phone-line-rental/ works well for me and after vat and our moderate telephone use comes out at about £40 to 42 a month (if 100Gb peak time is enough) --- more than enough for me. A very very responsive and helpful ISP with no drawbacks that I can detect.
The one draw back is the full charges for migration from TT, to be fair most of this is down to Openreach and Uno like A&A charge for rather than hide such costs. Moving from TT you can't use their online signup but have to just ask for the service via their contact page.
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I would also recommend Uno. Their customer support is extremely good, and when I was having some issues with my grandparent's line which was showing a fault they were eager to send out an Openreach technician, which can't be said for some other CPs. Their prices are very good as well, and they are very transparent about issues they are facing and have very quick response times.
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I would also recommend Uno.
More expensive that A&A for us, maybe that's 20CN loading. £36.24/month for 100GB (vs A&A at £25 for 150GB). Phone line rental is competitive though.
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Just been trying to get a price for what I want from UNO and they are unable to do this on their website. Not good enough I'm afraid. I dont mind ending up with a package I cant order online but refusing to show me anything for Fibre is simply not acceptable. I dont want to waste my time and theirs by phoning if the likely price is too high. Simply not good enough in my view. People need to realise that if you cannot even get a guide price for a package they folks give up and go elsewhere.
Stuart
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I don't understand your problem with the uno info. The web page gives the base prices without vat and they are exactly what you will pay. The only lack of clarity is that you can't see exact price range points in e.g. their BT wholesale FTTC product. The price of the 100GB/month peak and the 500GB/month prices are clear just not the in between points. The phone prices are all clear. The set up charges are in their master price list but I must admit that is hard to find. https://www.uno.net.uk/price-list/
I did a search of a lot of isp's when considering my move from TTB and almost all have number checkers which don't work with TT lines and consequently you can't get a proper quote with TT line. If you put in the number of someone with a BT based phone line you can get it give proper quote for that line but you would have extra migrating costs to pay for the change involving a switch from a TT metallic path.
My neighbour moved from TT to BT the web site did not mention the extra's but they appeared in his letter. BT also made a mess of the transition and he had no connection for a about 10 days!
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The data may well be all there but its not presented in a way which makes it easy to see how much they would charge and how much per month it would be for FTTC and phone. Also I object to paying for privacy features on a phone line. At the very least called display and anonymous call reject should be free. I really dont see why its so hard to display example prices and clearly quote what migration charges would be from an LLU provider. I simply cannot be bothered to wade through all the stuff the have just to get an example price. Also the quote earlier of £40-£42/month is more than TT would charge me at £37, plus I'd have to pay to migrate which I think is ridiculous when the phone line from here to the exchange will not change, all that would be required is probably a couple of jumpers at the exchange.
Stuart
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Caller display is a BIG rip off by the SPs, most of them charging anything from 99p to £2 per month for this feature. :rant:
The SP's are charged a paltry 0.45p per annum (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=CUj0C0LBt0eQQd6GTihtYK1ICdbBIp1HoRio1SFrpcQlMnGHsqdC0vzO163bJmh34D91D7M0q8u%2FIlSgtIFAKw%3D%3D) by Openreach to add this feature.
That is one hell of a markup for something that requires absolutely no additional workload for the SP once it is set up. They have to do nada.
This is one of the area's which really gets my goat particularly where Openreach gets all of the bad press for costs. Its actually the SPs who are raking the money in for line rental. Unlike DSL, phone line services require hardly any work or admin by the SPs yet their mark up for phone is astronomical. The LLU ISPs were responsible for starting this by insisting on taking over the line rental so that large phone line prices could subsidise DSL. The general public are being ripped off without even being aware :(
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land lines are a rip off all over the shop
call setup costs
minute rates
caller display
voicemail
3 of the 4 are free on mobiles.
on minute rates landlines tend to also now have a minimum charge per call and round up also to inflate the costs of short calls, another thing mobiles dont have.
Where I think you got it wrong kitz is who is leading the ripoff pricing, BT retail tend to raise their line rental, and then others follow always making sure they only slightly undercut BT retail. When LLU was new, line rental was actually close to wholesale costs, its in recent years post FTTC launch where it has skyrocketed. Sky have always subsidised broadband via tv subs, I dont know what talktalk subsidised it with tho, I think talktalk was just making huge losses when it started.
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>> BT retail tend to raise their line rental,
My line of thinking was it wasnt until the compulsory tie in of lines that prices started to rocket. Yes BTr are also guilty because they do the headline grabbing introductory new customer offers that have to be clawed back somehow. Another reason why I believe retail should be split off is that retail as just as bad as the others
Prior to 'tie ins' we could easily have a different line & broadband provider. Plus you have people like my uncle who was on pension credit and he only had to pay something like £7.50 for his phone line (this was a few years back now) and it made trying to find a DSL provider quite difficult as he only needed a very basic connection to check emails. I kept my phone and DSL separate for many years until the point when it became quite a lot more.
Retail Line rental and its associated charges have become a rip off in the UK. Unlike DSL there is very little work involved for the SP for line rental yet the mark-up in the region of 100% or more is ridiculous.
>> I dont know what talktalk subsidised it with tho,
iirc it was Dunstone and CarPhoneWarehouse and they projected to make losses in the first year, but eventually once they had built up a sizeable customer base then it would turn around because they had lower operating costs. Just tried to google to check but all that comes up is compare sites.
Did find this though - link (http://www.itpro.co.uk/156759/carphone-warehouse-warned-on-data-protection) where they blamed introduction of free broadband for their DPA security breaches. :-\
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The way things are charged is real irritation to me. I could have stayed with TTB but unless I threatened to leave and then let myself be locked into a new 2 years contract they cost too much. Much as i think Stuart is finding with TT home. Many other ISP's are much the same. I focused on uno and A&A so as escape from being annoyed in this way and with the low line rental costs like those of uno either were OK for me service and price wise i.e. less than TTB even with a new contract. I picked uno as I need the proper phone line a did not want to mess with voip via A&A. To use A&A I would have had to separate the normal phone from A&A. They would not let me order from them until I had a BT line working or paid for an extra line with them. That would mean 10 days with no service or the extra cost of another line. In the end I picked uno for both phone and BB knowing that I could then switch the BB to A&A if needed and leave the phone with uno.
I guess what you choose depends on your past experience of faults. I had total of three faults that needed sorting with TTB over 6 years. Two faults were openreach ones and due to what seems to be tendency for loose wire faults in the CAB. TTB were responsive but took some convincing as the faults were not continuous. The other fault was a TT line card and even though it was their equipment it took ages to get them to recognize the issue and get it fixed. This experience has made me reluctant to consider any customer service that might be worse than TTB.
I am not sure that most isp profits are excessive and I think the issues with the current system are as much due to the way consumers respond to offers and pricing systems as to a lack of action by ofcom.
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A lot of my clients all use Zen and we find them to be great, no problems with their customer service either, techy guys seem to know their stuff when we had problems with a Draytek.
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Caller display is a BIG rip off by the SPs, most of them charging anything from 99p to £2 per month for this feature. :rant:
The SP's are charged a paltry 0.45p per annum (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=CUj0C0LBt0eQQd6GTihtYK1ICdbBIp1HoRio1SFrpcQlMnGHsqdC0vzO163bJmh34D91D7M0q8u%2FIlSgtIFAKw%3D%3D) by Openreach to add this feature.
That is one hell of a markup for something that requires absolutely no additional workload for the SP once it is set up. They have to do nada.
Interestingly, Ofcom have announced a review of their General Conditions (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-1/review-general-conditions-relating-to-consumer-protection) today. This includes proposed changes to CLI including in this document (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/96055/Annex-13.pdf) including:
C7.5 Regulated Providers must not charge Subscribers any additional or separate fee for access to or use of standard Calling Line Identification Facilities.
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Very interesting. Good spot. and YAY :)
However the cynical side of me see's the retailers find some other way to disguise it by say adding £1 pm to all customers bills ::)