Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => PC Hardware => Topic started by: renluop on September 30, 2016, 02:35:23 PM
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My 6 to 7 y.o. Dell desktop for a while suffers from unexpected restarts. Often dust is mentioned and over heating as a result.
However, today the first incidence was within 5 minutes of turning the power on from the overnight power down. That causes me to discount the dust/ overheating theory, at least for the first incident. What do you guys think; is something like the PSU giving up, or may be the machine getting ready to pop its clogs?
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I would check the fans and reseat the RAM. A thorough RAM testing tool might be worth a go.
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Well I have run Memtest. As for the rest, I'm a new octogenarian, who's always had two left feet on my right hand. :blush:
The computer box is hardly ever moved, and then it's usually dragged, so what's the chance of anything unseated?
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Heat generated during normal operation can cause things to move and make joints intermittent. Really you need to remake any plug/socket connections inside, including things like PCI cards.
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Oh dear! :'( for reasons I gave above. Do I get my man to help at a cost on an probably obsolete m/c, or be more drastic?hmmm
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When did you last vacuum out your PC ...... Attachment shows why you might need to :swoon:
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That'll be in hand, though it was last at "my man" mid May.
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Impressive pic.
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The pics show how it looks now; the best I can do with only a hand vac available, which is not good on dust. I wiped out as best I could. Grey had hues; didn't help.
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I used to take my machines outside and blast various nooks with a tin of compressed air.
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Am on to that ASAP. I didn't think mine looked half as bad as tb2's pic. My effort doesn't seem to have worked. Considering age could the PSU be getting creaky? From my readings testing looks ****** complicated, unless someone knows otherwise?
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The power supply is one possibility, but there are several others. Almost any bit of failing hardware could result in intermittent reboots. But really, the next thing to do if you haven't already is to reseat all the plug/socket connections.
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I'd suggest first identifying if this is hardware or software(e.g. Windows drivers/kernel space). Get a Linux live CD and run your machine using that, see if you get shutdowns. If you do then you can start checking/swapping out hardware to see what's failing - RAM, PSU, graphics card, etc.
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I'd suggest first identifying if this is hardware or software(e.g. Windows drivers/kernel space). Get a Linux live CD and run your machine using that, see if you get shutdowns. If you do then you can start checking/swapping out hardware to see what's failing - RAM, PSU, graphics card, etc.
Can you explain further, please, as I do not understand how a Linux CD would work with a Windows machine? Also, I haven't a clue where I would get such a CD, nor what its content need be. :-\
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A live CD means a bootable CD. You boot from it and then you're running another operating system, Linux in this case. This can then for example examine your current system.
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Ah! I may give that a Go, if I xan find where to down load a file to burn.
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Anyone got an appropriate link to an .iso?
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Is your PC 32-bit or 64-bit?
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> Is your PC 32-bit or 64-bit?
Bearing in mind that you might be running a 32-bit o/s on a 64-bit-capable machine (an AMD64 or Intel x86-64 box).
Of course, if you have an x86 machine of some sort and stick a bootable CD with a 32-bit x86 version of Linux in it, then that Linux will work on a 64-bit PC too, so that's the safe option.
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Is your PC 32-bit or 64-bit?
64-bit
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> Is your PC 32-bit or 64-bit?
Bearing in mind that you might be running a 32-bit o/s on a 64-bit-capable machine (an AMD64 or Intel x86-64 box).
Of course, if you have an x86 machine of some sort and stick a bootable CD with a 32-bit x86 version of Linux in it, then that Linux will work on a 64-bit PC too, so that's the safe option.
OS is 64 too.
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Here's one possibility: http://www.pclinuxos.com/get-pclinuxos/kde/
and a direct link to download the iso: http://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/pclinuxos/pclinuxos/live-cd/64bit/pclinuxos64-kde-2016.03.iso
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This one will be ok for running hardware tests..... still linux :)
http://www.inquisitor.ru/about/
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Here's one possibility: http://www.pclinuxos.com/get-pclinuxos/kde/
and a direct link to download the iso: http://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/pclinuxos/pclinuxos/live-cd/64bit/pclinuxos64-kde-2016.03.iso
CD burnt from your direct link. In use got as far as the start up blue screen, and then error 0x4001100200001012 came up. That seems to relate to Windows 7 repair disks. Nothing I found so far relates to Windows 10.
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First, how did you burn the iso to CD? It has to be burnt as an image, not just by copying the file. Second, if you did do it this way, then are you sure that your PC is set up to boot from the CD first? You may need to go into the BIOS setup and change the boot order.
The reason for these questions is that error messages relating to Windows will not have come from the Linux live CD, so your system isn't booting from the CD - what you got was a failed Windows boot.
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Doh! :-[ Now what about this? Thinking of parkdale's suggestion, I downloaded Inquisitor, seemingly correctly, but just as well I looked at Event Log. A reboot had taken place whilst download was in course. ******* computer! >:( :'(
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When you write a CD from a .iso image file, it writes the entire CD from the file’s contents, rather than putting a standard file system on to the CD and placing one file within it. You need a special tool to write .iso files, or else a function that is named something like that within some existing app that writes CDs.
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Thanks Weaver and Eric! :) I've managed to burn with ImgBrn now.
@Eric. Using your CD, I assume one clicks on Live CD, then several black screens with text appear with, hopefully "OK" in green down the right side. After that all seems to go to sleep, but for the spasmodic faint noise from the CD spinning. Is that normal and what else must I do, please?
Whilst posting 3 reboots! Thank goodness for Chrome!
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Most of my unexpected restarts have always come from a dying Graphics Card but you see the artifacts and then BSOD and a reboot.
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None of those symptoms; all I get is a click, black screen then a restart without my needing to log in
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were your able to run a chkdsk /f
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Pics taken when Live Disk was running. They're not good, but so they tell anything? I could not find a text log.
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Everything we thought possible done, I got a new PSU fitted on appro.
Found very quickly a new PSU is not solution.
Can't think what next! :-\ :'(
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I like your hunch that the issue is PSU-related. Is the PC mains plug connected directly to a wall socket, or via a trailing extension lead?
If the latter, try to eliminate the extension lead by plugging in directly to a wall socket.
Extension leads often act up but if not, then even the PC 'kettle' lead, or the 13A wall socket could have become defective. These are long shots, but probably easy to eliminate by substitution, with zero expenditure...
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Hi 7LM! I like your idea, but the present positioning of twin power point and my computer does not lend itself. They are diametrically opposite, so the power lead would not reach. Can one get extra long power leads, preferably long enough to avoid the cable not being fixable to floor or wall? I don't want any trip hazard.The surge protector and extension lead is like this (http://cdn.cnetcontent.com/85/3d/853d64aa-12a2-4caa-985a-279dd62d683c.jpg), and I had it before moving here 14 years ago, I think, so wondering about that too.
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If it was related to the power lead, while there's no gaurantee, I would expect it to respond to wiggling.
Tap and wiggle the various power connectors, if anything triggers a restart you are probably getting warm. :)
I'm reminded in particular of my old HP server box, which behaved just like yours for a while. In that case, the fault was the 3 pin connector on the back of the PC itself. But that's usually an integral part of the computer PSU, which you have already replaced.
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in my experience a self rebooting system is either PSU or CPU related althought it could be a BSOD incident if auto restart is enabled for BSOD's you can check the event viewer logs to see if was a os/driver crash or not.
Assuming its not a BSOD I dont think its gpu or ram related as those tend to cause driver/os crashes rather than spontaneous reboots.
Cpu's do degrade over time with whats known as voltage degradation, most cpu's if not all cpu's have a operating buffer (which is why pretty much every cpu is overclockable), over time this buffer shrinks due to the voltage degradation, eventually it will hit a critical level which can be overcome by underclocking or overvolting a cpu (if thats the cause). The amount of time before this happens depends how well the cpu is binned as well as operating conditions during its life.
--edit--
To add a bad/degraded mortherboard could also cause this. This diagnosis I think will be a case of swapping out parts. That is if you think the old hardware is worth the effort as swapping out parts costs time and money.
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in my experience a self rebooting system is either PSU or CPU related althought it could be a BSOD incident if auto restart is enabled for BSOD's you can check the event viewer logs to see if was a os/driver crash or not.
Assuming its not a BSOD I dont think its gpu or ram related as those tend to cause driver/os crashes rather than spontaneous reboots.
Cpu's do degrade over time with whats known as voltage degradation, most cpu's if not all cpu's have a operating buffer (which is why pretty much every cpu is overclockable), over time this buffer shrinks due to the voltage degradation, eventually it will hit a critical level which can be overcome by underclocking or overvolting a cpu (if thats the cause). The amount of time before this happens depends how well the cpu is binned as well as operating conditions during its life.
--edit--
To add a bad/degraded mortherboard could also cause this. This diagnosis I think will be a case of swapping out parts. That is if you think the old hardware is worth the effort as swapping out parts costs time and money.
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If your getting black screens when booting linux all variants (well most) followed by machine HD light flicking away to its self and the machine appears to gone to sleep, you need to boot to
default graphics.
Boot cd then at the first menu you press "e" at the grub boot menu, you should be presented with the actual grub lines used to boot.
Search down to the line that starts with "linux /boot/..." it may (probably will) span across two or more lines.
At the end of the line it probably says "quiet splash"
After "splash" type a space and then nomodeset.
then ctl-x will boot with those boot options. Esc brings you back to the grub menu in case you hit "e" on the wrong menu entry.
I have intel graphics and had to use nomodeset
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@parkdale
I'm guessing that's a sort of "in passing" post. I'll keep it in mind if ever I decide to use Linux. ;D
Had someone out, who put replacement PSU in on loan. Occurrences increased, so he took box away, but could not replicate fault, and there were no BSODs with auto reboot disabled. The surge protector is now excluded from the power to the computer in case that is the cause.
Other thing thought by me, is could a characteristic of our house power be a factor, though generally I can't say anything noticed like flckering lights?
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Had someone out, who put replacement PSU in on loan. Occurrences increased, so he took box away, but could not replicate fault, and there were no BSODs with auto reboot disabled. The surge protector is now excluded from the power to the computer in case that is the cause.
Other thing thought by me, is could a characteristic of our house power be a factor, though generally I can't say anything noticed like flckering lights?
Well, as there were six restarts in the early hours, that's another theory gone.
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I see from your pics above, that your using 'PC Linux OS' live to boot the PC.
Are you getting reboots using the live CD? (I may have missed this part in your postings :-[)
There will be logs generated with PC Linux....but as it's a live CD they will not be kept if the PC has rebooted.
Have you replaced the "TIM" on the cpu? (Thermal paste) this can dry out leading to poor contact, which in turn causes the cpu to overheat.
Like Chrysalis it's looking like a cpu problem, if it were Ram the PC would simply lock up.
Power supplies tend to suffer from lack of 5v rail, which in turn randomly turns the PC on and not at other times.
As you've already swapped this out, that's another idea in the bin.
Have you put a new graphics card in? or are you using the onboard graphics?
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Folks, maybe worth re-emphasising that this is a Windows PC. I'd question therefor, the amount of effort that Renluop whould be exerting to load Linux. Even when he gets it all running, there is no guarantee that it will help. Worst case scenario would be that the PC ran perfectly under Linux, Renluop is then back to square one, with no clues as to what is wrong.
Personally at this point, I'd be suspecting a motherboard problem. In particular, I'd be thinking about failed capacitors. Unfortunately aluminium electrolytics often have a very short service life by design (a few years) and you are not unlikely to see some bulging caps on any 'economy' PC of that age. Failed capacitors are usually fairly obvious as they swell and leak, so I'd suggest taking a peek at the motherboard to see if any can be seen.
Finding some bad caps doesn't guarantee that these are the cause of your problem (though they'd be a prime suspect), but it may indicate that the PC's days are numbered regardless, a justify the cost of a new PC.
Google for a few pics of 'bad capacitors' to see what to look for. I'm not providing any specific links as there are so many to choose from. :)
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Friends! You're great guys for trying to aid this trying person!
Please ignore anything of Linux, and for the time being relax from further posts. I'll come back idc, when some suggestions handed me from elsewhere have been investigated. :)