Kitz Forum

Computers & Hardware => Apple Related => Topic started by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 12:56:20 AM

Title: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 12:56:20 AM
I keep getting a battery-level droop problem with my iPad 5, latest iOS (9.x). While powered by USB sometimes the battery level just starts to go down for no apparent reason. One or sometimes two reboots cures it. After a reboot the reported battery level suddenly drops by a few percent, then starts to climb rapidly. It gets back to 100% fairly soon, and then all is well for a day or so, before the problem starts again.

I don't understand how this is even electrically possible. Assuming that the reported battery level is not bogus, that is. Why doesn't the device simply draw all required power directly from the external source? How is it even possible for it to droop? When I worked for Psion PLC many years ago, all our devices, such as the Organiser II and the SIBO family of devices such as the Series 3 worked like this, they didn't use the battery at all when plugged into external power.

I'm assuming that it's some kind of bizarre software bug. Don't know when it was introduced. Does anyone know of a fix?

My wife has recently bought an iPad 6, and got rid of her iPad 3 which suffered from the same problem. Her new iPad 6 is problem-free so far. I suspect the iPad 3 which has been sold to a friend is now ok because I haven't heard any complaints and I'm assuming the complete wipe and reset cured it. I dare to wipe my machine, I have far too much valuable stuff on it, and I can't prove it's safely backed up. Nor can I afford another iPad just now, I'm all spent up.

If anyone knows of a less drastic cure, then I would be grateful.

The problem only started about a month ago. I've no idea what triggered it.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 06:59:21 AM
I've read a lot of web pages that seem to be full of mumbo-jumbo, and don't help at all.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Chrysalis on August 17, 2016, 07:09:04 AM
I only read information up on this a couple of weeks ago apparently when reading some android stuff.

Apparently the batteries used now days in smart devices, will regress quicker when fully charged so manufacturers are now designing the hardware to not keep the battery charged fully when plugged in, they not all doing this but some are.  They also slow down charging after it hits 80% or so to try and avoid fully charged devices.

After that you get inaccuracies in the algorithms which can cause jumps in battery life to occur that is reported.i
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 08:10:02 AM
The battery droop often starts when the reading is 100%. Just now I had to do several reboots before the battery reading started climbing again - it's gone from 67% to 92% and still climbing.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Ronski on August 17, 2016, 08:46:10 AM
I have a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 edition,  it's battery level has become rather erratic over the last few months, so I changed the battery,  whilst it's better it's still not how it used to be. I might have to look at installing a more recent OS on it and see if that makes any difference.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
1. So perhaps the battery level _readings_ are bogus?

2. Or is it possible that the battery level is intentionally managed so as to allow it to droop _by design_?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Dray on August 17, 2016, 09:39:01 AM
I had a similar problem but fixed it by turning off mobile data on my ipad
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 10:03:34 AM
@Dray Was that a permanent fix? That is, if you keep mobile data off does the problem never reoccur?

I don't have 3G/4G on my iPad 5. It's just the 128GB flash, wifi-only model. So that is really weird. A complete mystery.

And I've had this device for ages before the bug suddenly started a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 10:12:08 AM
If I knew how to back it up _and_ be certain I've done so fully and safely, and if I then wiped it and reset the settings, then I suspect I might cure it. Changing my wife's new iPad 6's setting so they are no longer at factory defaults but are like the settings she had in her drooping, draining iPad 3 has not introduced the bug, so changing settings is not the answer to why you get into the bugged state.

I don't have a suitable box to use to back it up via the lightning cable and iTunes btw. If I were to back it up it would have to be over the network. I told it to back up to the iCloud, but I dOnt know if that means it has truly backed up everything. That iCloud backup procedure worked for transferring my wife's life from her old iPad to her new one, so perhaps I shouldn't be such a chicken.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Dray on August 17, 2016, 10:23:34 AM
Can't you see what's using the battery? http://www.imore.com/how-see-whats-using-battery-life-your-iphone-or-ipad
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 17, 2016, 10:34:44 AM
Yes, I can. But that still doesn't explain why it's going down sometimes and not others. Why doesn't it just draw all required current from the external supply which is _always connected_?

The apps that are listed as using the most "battery" are simply the expected ones - the ones that have been using most CPU time. For example, the Netflix app or the Amazon video player, or Safari if that's the app I've been using most.

To clarify, the machine is on external power 100% of the time, we're not talking about battery _life_, there is no reason to be even using the battery at all as ample external power should be available (unless there's something wrong with the power source). I've tried two different lightning cables, and if the power source were defective, then why wouldn't it always be happening as opposed to sometimes and not others.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Ronski on August 17, 2016, 07:30:38 PM
I'm certainly sharing your  problem on my tablet, it dropped from 50% to 15% a short while ago, if I looked at the battery usage it totals 21% yet I'm showing 7% remaining now, I also find my tablet charges better when turned off. Just plain weird!
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 17, 2016, 07:35:40 PM
Are you using genuine Apple lightning cables?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: NEXUS2345 on August 17, 2016, 07:42:45 PM
Backing the iPad up to iTunes on a PC backs up all data and can restore it perfectly. I did this when transferring from my iPad 3 to my iPad Air 2 (5).
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on August 17, 2016, 09:01:08 PM
I've been having terrible problems with battery life on two iPhones 5s's. They get warm too.
Both have had multiple battery replacements with different companies (warranty mainly) to no effect whatsoever.
I'm convinced, as they've both been fully reset to "factory" (and still behave the same), that there is an internal problem with battery management and/or CPU.

As a result I've got very good at backups/restores with iTunes, and yes they really do work. If you use the encrypted option it saves (and restores) all the logons/passwords too.

One of the iPhones, before it starting misbehaving, would last up to 100 hours of, admittedly very light, use on one charge.
Afterwards it would discharge totally in 7 or 8 hours! >:D
The other one was not quite so extreme but it would run down at typically 7% or 8% per hour so wouldn't last a day.
Just to be totally clear, these would be with new batteries, fully charged with a  genuine Apple charger/cable and factory reset with no iCloud account, no SIM (removed after setup), and no wifi! So doing nothing at all. With a SIM in and set up normally the battery ran down at almost exactly the same rate. 

I've read all sorts of stuff online about background processes, iCloud, etc. etc. but every single one has been eliminated, I'm convinced it's hardware/firmware.  :-X

Currently I don't have an iPhone as BOTH are away being "repaired" again!   >:(

Backing the iPad up to iTunes on a PC backs up all data and can restore it perfectly. I did this when transferring from my iPad 3 to my iPad Air 2 (5).
Very true but I think it was noted above that the OP doesn't have access to a suitable PC.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 18, 2016, 08:54:55 AM
It was a few years ago, but I did figure out how to get better half's iPhone 3G to last a good week or more in standby.   She just wanted to use it as a phone, not a smartphone.

The trick, as you'd expect, was to disable data access.  But just disabling data didn't make any difference - the magic bullet was to leave data enabled, but to trash the APN settings (username /password) so that data access failed.   

I didn't figure that out for myself, I found it 'out there' on forums.   it must have been a bug and you'd think they'd have fixed it by now, but maybe worth checking?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: kitz on August 18, 2016, 09:02:22 PM
I'm certainly sharing your  problem on my tablet, it dropped from 50% to 15% a short while ago, if I looked at the battery usage it totals 21% yet I'm showing 7% remaining now, I also find my tablet charges better when turned off. Just plain weird!

Had a very similar problem myself about a month or so ago.  Usage would drop dramatically and if I got to 20% plugged the charger in and continued to use it would still drain.    Im using genuine samsung chargers and leads.   I double checked to make sure I was using the correct charger for my tab (and not phone).  Yep that was ok.   Then I swapped the leads and suddenly all was ok again.    To make sure I wasnt going mad swapped them back again and the problem is replicated.   

Dunno why the lead should cause this problem but it does.   Both leads look identical.  The lead that is duff for my galaxy tab is fine with my phone.   
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 18, 2016, 09:38:26 PM
I might well have an actual Apple cable around somewhere, but no the two cables I've tried are third party "certified" (or some such) ones. I have no idea what makes this suddenly start. Apple must have literally millions of users with this problem!
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 18, 2016, 10:35:40 PM
May be wrong, but I don't think there is any such thing as an Apple 'certified' cable.  They might be branded 'made for iPhone', but the manufacturer is simply self-certifying that he has joined the program and read all the documents.

Per Apple charging leads, there are I think two problems... First, some cables are 'chipped' and so bootleg clones simply won't work at all.  Secondly, iPads will draw a hefty current (over 2A) from a charger that provides it.   The voltage drop in the cable when such a high current flows can be significant and, just maybe, the terminal voltage at the device becomes insufficient?

I have tried various non Apple cables, not one of them worked reliably for iPad.   Some refused to charge at all, others looked like they were charging, but weren't, or were charging so slowly that any actual use of the device during charging translated to net discharge..   That said, I've a couple of car IPhone chargers that seem to work ok with phones, but not tried them with iPads.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 19, 2016, 03:07:42 AM
Sorry, the small white plastic box that goes into the mains socket is an actual Apple piece of kit, came with the iPad. It's just the lightning cable between it and the iPad that is third-party, and I've tried several. The cable I'm using has no problems powering my wife's iPad 6, btw.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Ronski on August 19, 2016, 07:52:31 AM
I think I've tried swapping cables/chargers, perhaps I'll have to try a new cable.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 19, 2016, 08:24:28 AM
It is the cable itself that I have found to be critical, not the power bricks.  Admittedly though, all my power bricks are originals.

The cable also acts as the debugging interface when testing Apps on the device and interestingly, I have some third party cables that work perfectly for debugging, they just won't charge.

Worth pointing out though that Apple do ship different power bricks with different devices.  They often look identical but, if you can read the tiny grey on white print (you'll need good light and good eyesight) you'll find  some are 5W, usually supplied with iPhones and some are 12W, supplied with iPads.   This may further cause further misleading symptoms when tacking down issues with dodgy cables.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 19, 2016, 10:46:01 AM
I have found quite a well argued, quantified, explanation of the voltage drop issue, and why some 3rd party cables might charge some devices but not others, or only charge slowly, or only sometimes.   I haven't checked every detail the chap's maths or assumptions but nor have I, at first glance, spotted anything with which I disagree.

http://goughlui.com/2014/10/01/usb-cable-resistance-why-your-phonetablet-might-be-charging-slow/

Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: kitz on August 19, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Good article.  ^

I just tried comparing my 2 cables.  Unfortunately I cant see any markings which indicate wire gauge.   They both look very similar, yet I just noticed the one which works ok is about 20cm shorter than the one which doesnt.

Thinking about it now..  I may have swapped the cables over at some point thinking they were both the same, but one gave me a bit more length if I was using the tablet to read in bed. 
Both the phone and tablet were new within 2 weeks of each other and both came with leads and power bricks.   The power bricks make it clear which I should use for the phone and which for the tablet.  Never thought that the lead would make any difference. 
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 20, 2016, 03:36:07 AM
> you'll find some are 5W, usually supplied with iPhones and some are 12W, supplied with iPads.

I'm bound to have mixed up the small power bricks and I didn't know the cables were that critical. My wife has an iPhone 5c and that could be the source of a kit swap-over mix-up.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 20, 2016, 10:10:34 AM
If you and your wife 'share' a charging point, as we do, just make sure it is an iPad power brick.  IPhones that shipped with 5W charters will charge fine from a 10W or 12W iPad charger, but iPads may be suboptimal when used with the less beefy iPhone charger.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202105

I'm pretty sure both our iPads actually do charge from the 5W chargers and reliably so, just more slowly.  But I've also seen it said that they won't or shouldn't charge at all, maybe I'm just lucky.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 20, 2016, 10:26:34 AM
I simply can't read the text on the power adapt or, my eyesight is nowhere near good enough, so I'll get a magnifying glass and report back. For now, I've also tried plugging the lightning cable straight into a mains distribution block  that has a USB charging socket in it, and the iPad shows the lightning symbol/ status icon and seems to be maintain levels at 100% for the moment.

Very valuable tips btw. I might also get some more kit straight from the Apple shop - wherever that is, memory fails?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Dray on August 20, 2016, 10:52:25 AM
Can't you take a photo of it and zoom in?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 20, 2016, 11:13:19 AM
I simply can't read the text on the power adapt or, my eyesight is nowhere near good enough

He he, you and me too.  I've just been around the house checking and find it pretty much unreadable.   This is new, we know (me and my optician) that my extreme close up vision is getting worse, but I'm sure a year ago I could make it out. :(

I did eventually ascertain that, of the samples at my immediate disposal, I have three 5W and two 10W.  In fact they look physically very different, the 5Ws are much more compact, looking at a glance just like a normal 240v plug.  The 10W adapters are both quite bulky by comparison, a very different design which, maybe wrongly, I had thought just meant they were older.   I may therefore have been mistaken when I said the different chargers may look identical, although I still have a feeling it is sometimes true.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 20, 2016, 05:42:57 PM
photo tip is a good one. Yes my wife could photo it. I've no idea how to use the camera and my hands aren't good enough at the moment.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 20, 2016, 05:43:55 PM
Anyone have a link to a good source for a genuine Apple iPad unit?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 20, 2016, 06:43:28 PM
Mrs Weaver enlarged it. She couldn't see either.

The unit says
    Plug says 2.5A lic973 6076315 vole X
    10W

Should it read 12W?
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 20, 2016, 07:42:16 PM
Some iPads have 10W chargers, some have 12W.  The original mini had just a 5W charger.

The link I posted earlier lists which is for which...

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202105

I'd be very surprised if using a 10W charger, where a 12W had been supplied, caused a problem other than taking up to *about 20% longer to charge.  Then again, I have been surprised in the past, and will undoubtably be surprised again.

*for separate debate,  Should I have said 'up to about 17%', ie 2/12 ? Having already consumed a beer, I can't make up my mind. :D
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on August 30, 2016, 12:17:09 AM
I got rid of the small white Apple box that the lightning cable was plugged into, and plugged the USB end of the lightning cable straight into a Belkin mains block which has USB sockets in it as well as three-pin mains sockets. For the moment, my battery drain problems seem to have gone away. Fingers crossed, firmly.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on November 06, 2016, 02:24:33 PM
Just resurrecting this rather old thread, my iPhone battery drain problems are now all solved.
One was solved by fitting (eventually) a decent battery.
One was solved under warranty (bought used from a reasonably reputable supplier/repairer) and I actually have no idea how, but I have my suspicions (see below and think it through....).
The third was effectively "given up on" by the (fairly local to me but with a national presence) firm working on it and they refunded me what I'd paid to initially fit a new battery, after which it had got much worse and stayed that way after multiple further tests and battery swaps. I wasn't happy, especially when I happened (soon after) to see a random "watchdog-type" consumer program on the BBC which rather "named and shamed" this particular company for failing a significant number of customers!

So I spoke to the company that fixed #2 and sent #3 to them, paying £15 for a diagnostics service. As #2 and#3 had been giving almost identical symptoms I reckoned it was worth trying.
They diagnosed a faulty charger chip, costing £60 to replace less the diagnostic charge which would be deducted if I went ahead.
I did and all is well, battery life is the longest I've ever seen on an iPhone.  :yay:
Since I got it back I've only charged it twice, once on receipt and once just over 2 days ago.
Currently it's showing 49 hours of use (including standby) and 61% battery remaining. It could last for over 5 days!  :o

Not sure what lessons I've learned, but I have identified one iPhone repairer that do seem to know what they are doing, and one that doesn't.....  :graduate:
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 06, 2016, 10:22:37 PM
Of interest HP can you be certain that your actual devices were repaired, rather than exchanged  for working versions?

I ask that because I had the impression, last time I discussed it in an Apple shop, it seemed likely that no matter what the complaint,  all they did was exchange for new/old stock, for a hefty price.

And also because I actually attempted a diy LCD repair on an early iPod touch.  It ended badly, didn't make it any worse, but didn't fix it either.   But the experience of dismantling a device that was never meant to be dismantled, such as the hair-thin moisture seal that disintegrated if breathed upon,  left me a little sceptical of the unnoficial iPhone/iPad etc repair industry.   :-[
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on November 07, 2016, 12:20:48 PM
I'm pretty sure because of minor damage to the case and labels that stayed and retention of data/setup, though the internals could have been swapped and data copied over. IMEI etc. was of course unchanged.
The most recent repair there's even a small crack/chip to the screen edge (well outside the used area) that they quoted to repair - I declined.

This was an independent repairer, not an official/franchised Apple outlet/store.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on November 07, 2016, 02:01:57 PM
It could last for over 5 days!  :o
In the end, because I was using it quite a bit yesterday I decided to recharge it just now. Down to about 10% after over 3 days (75 hours) which is not bad for a smartphone.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 07, 2016, 06:44:01 PM
In the end, because I was using it quite a bit yesterday I decided to recharge it just now. Down to about 10% after over 3 days (75 hours) which is not bad for a smartphone.

Impressive indeed, my 5c which is still new by my standards (2 years old) has never been able to survive more than about 6-12 hours real use, or maybe a day and a half in standby.   :)

FWIW, my old iPad 2 seems to have settled into a state whereby battery drain in standby is truly negligible.  Can't remember exactly what I changed but I can go away for the weekend, leaving it at (say) 70% charge.  On return 3 or 4 days later, I press the home button, enter passcode, and it still shows 70%.   In use, it goes down as you would expect (a few hours would drain it) but in sleep, it seems pretty much unlimited. ???

As is well documented on these forums, iPad 2s are barely usable anymore, esp if they've been updated past iOS 7.  All the same I reckon, a barely usable device, that stays equally unusable for many days on a single charge, still deserves some kind of credit.   :D

Thanks also for feedback re repairer, it certainly sounds like you've got your real devices back - which is what I'd want.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on November 07, 2016, 10:21:48 PM
I don't want to name the repair companies publicly, but if you need a recommendation PM me.
I've dealt with 3 different such companies in recent months, all are around the periphery of London and do business mainly by post.
(The very first one I dealt with I've not mentioned, they were reasonably OK for some simple fixes that if I'd bothered I could maybe have done myself)
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: HPsauce on November 08, 2016, 09:15:51 AM
One was solved under warranty (bought used from a reasonably reputable supplier/repairer) and I actually have no idea how
This one is now used by SWMBO who keeps it in her bag and often forgets to charge it. Isn't used much but is "always on".
I asked her to check it last night and it was 25% charged having survived over 125 hours (>5 days  :o ) since the last charge.

Edit: Still at 21% this morning, so heading for 6 days. Will it last a whole week (168 hours)?  :-X
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Weaver on December 27, 2016, 06:49:15 AM
At the start of december, my iPad 5 just wouldn't charge at all unless I put it into sleep mode. It gave an error message to that effect, something about not charging, but I forget the exact text. Iirc, the machine would just about maintain its battery level, but barely so.

I solved the problem for good by having a massive cull of all known cables that were not real Apple ones. I had bought some from Amazon iirc and / or their ‘marketplace’ suppliers, and despite various lying assurances these cables were simply no good at all. I must have thrown away about four of them and I was ready to blame the iPad itself when I couldn't get it to charge despite swapping over cables to try several different ones, and this after some utterly useless non-advice from Apple that I needed to get the iPad repaired even though there was nothing at all wrong with it. Mrs Weaver had been desperate to get hold of some really long cables, much longer than those that Apple sell which I think are max 2 m. Dodgy cables had been something like £5 - £15 for a much longer cable than the Apple 2m ones for something like £30, and Apple's pricing offended Mrs Weaver, but we learned there is no point buying something cheap that simply doesn't work.

When I bought a couple of genuine cables direct from Apple all the problems instantly went away, and the first thing I noticed was that the genuine lightning connector is a proper snug fit, whereas the third party dodgy cables were all incredibly wobbly and loose - it had been possible to waggle them about in the socket through a fairly wide angle.


So a lesson learned, and a very expensive mistake narrowly avoided.
Title: Re: Dreaded iPad battery drain problem
Post by: Ronski on December 27, 2016, 08:21:22 AM
I had a similar problem with my Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 edition,  I purchased and installed a new battery, which was actually worse and I eventually refitted  the old battery and purchased a new lead from Ebay, it was specified as high power heavy duty, it was a gamble, but was relatively cheap and it's worked perfectly ever since. Well the battery/charging has but I've managed to stop two buttons working, not a major problem as there's ways around it,  bit more of a pain. Really must open it up again and see if I can fix them  :fingers: