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Computer Software => Windows 8 => Topic started by: snadge on May 30, 2013, 04:06:39 PM

Title: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: snadge on May 30, 2013, 04:06:39 PM
Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/qun8YBJ.jpg)

Microsoft has confirmed a Start button is returning to the desktop mode's taskbar of its Windows 8 operating system.

The lack of the facility - which had been in every previous version since Windows 95 - has been one of the most controversial aspects of the software.

However, it will not offer all the functionality previously associated with the feature.

Instead it will bring users to the recently-introduced "Metro" interface.

"We've improved the way you navigate to Start with the mouse by changing the Start 'tip' to be the familiar Windows logo," the company said in a blog post.

"The new tip appears anytime you move the mouse to the bottom left corner of the screen, and is always visible on the taskbar when on the desktop."

On current versions of Windows 8, the start tip would only appear when users hovered their cursor over the lower-left corner of their screen.

In the 8.1 update, the area will be more visible. A left-click on the tip will bring up a tile-based Start Screen - formerly known as the Metro interface - designed for touch-screen users, while a right-click will display a small menu of other options such as Event Viewer, Device Manager and Disk Management.

Another change will allow users to boot their computers directly into desktop mode, meaning they can avoid ever using the Start Screen if they wish.


The Windows 7 Start button triggered a menu with apps and other links
Many users had complained that ditching the traditional Start Menu and introducing the Start Screen had made the system less straight-forward to use, meaning businesses which adopted it would need to retrain staff.

'New Coke'
Microsoft had been stung by claims that the expected reintroduction of a Start button would mark a major U-turn.

An article in the Financial Times described the move as one of the "most prominent admissions of failure for a new mass-market consumer product since Coca-Cola's New Coke fiasco nearly 30 years ago" - making reference to the soft drinks company's to ditch a new recipe after overwhelming customer dissatisfaction.

Microsoft later issued a statement saying it was "unfortunate" the FT did not represent the "good response to date on Windows 8."

A preview download of Windows 8.1 will be released to the public in June, and a final version before the end of the year. Both will be free of charge to existing users.

'A fudge'
Chris Green, principal technology analyst for the Davies Murphy Group, told the BBC he did not think the change would be enough to silence the critics.

"What they're proposing to do is a bit of a fudge.

"It's the bare minimum to say they've addressed people's complaints while not having to really backtrack on anything."

He said Microsoft faced a challenge in being able to innovative with Windows while also keeping its vast user base comfortable.

"When new operating systems come along, same with major applications, everything moves around. People hate it because they have to re-learn from scratch."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22714048 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22714048)
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: guest on May 30, 2013, 04:37:09 PM
You may wish to read El Reg, rather than the totally useless BBC :)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/07/windows_8_u_turn/

Note the date ;)

Oh and : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/29/windows_81_start_button/
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: snadge on May 30, 2013, 04:50:25 PM
wierd, I use Protopage for my news, i have about 10 different RSS feeds and the register is one of them but never displayed that? if i recall they have many sections so may not have made the feed I have which is: http://www.theregister.co.uk/networks/headlines.atom

Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: HPsauce on May 30, 2013, 04:58:58 PM
I think I'm preparing for a lot of hype to be followed by a massively disappointing reality.  :'(
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: guest on May 30, 2013, 04:59:51 PM
wierd, I use Protopage for my news, i have about 10 different RSS feeds and the register is one of them but never displayed that? if i recall they have many sections so may not have made the feed I have which is: http://www.theregister.co.uk/networks/headlines.atom

All RSS feeds will do is depress you, trust me on that ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: guest on May 30, 2013, 05:01:28 PM
I think I'm preparing for a lot of hype to be followed by a massively disappointing reality.  :'(

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/29/windows_81_start_button/ is what is going to happen. Paul Thurrot is an arrogant git but he has lots of buddies inside MS. He's rarely wrong on stuff like this.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: HPsauce on May 30, 2013, 05:30:07 PM
If accurate that will indeed be massively disappointing.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: guest on May 30, 2013, 05:53:57 PM
If accurate that will indeed be massively disappointing.

Indeed, but from the MS perspective anything more than this means they will be admitting to failure on the UI in 2 out of the last 3 client OS releases. They'll get flayed alive by Wall St.

Were it not for the massive installed base of Win32 x86 s/w MS would already be circling the toilet rim. Sadly as the kernel becomes more reliable and security (coding practices mainly) gets better, MS continue to deploy the gun->foot approach on the UI.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: HPsauce on May 30, 2013, 06:17:53 PM
They'd get less flayed if they provided a genuine choice so that everyone (well almost) was happy and they made more sales as a result.  8)

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Pride+comes+before+a+fall
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: snadge on May 30, 2013, 06:23:20 PM
I remember during BETA/RC testing they said they were gunna make Start Menu and Desktop an option at install for users...when the first BETA of windows 8 was released everyone moaned about the missing start menu and being forced to view the start screen at login - so MS said they would make it an option during windows install.. Tablet or Desktop... then they changed their minds on it some months later
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: guest on May 30, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
They'd get less flayed if they provided a genuine choice so that everyone (well almost) was happy and they made more sales as a result.  8)

Indeed but I guess the view from inside a bubble looks a bit different to that outside :)

Anyway they make plenty on sales of downgraded Windows8->Windows7 licenses, just like they did on Vista->XP ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: HPsauce on June 28, 2013, 02:14:19 PM
So, apart from me, who has tried out Windows "Blue" aka 8.1.  >:D
Underwhelmed. Definitely no "U-turn" :'(

There's now a "button" (square block really) on the desktop to invoke the tiled start menu, rather than having to work your mouse into the corner - wow!  :baby:
And (if you can find them) there are options to boot straight to the desktop and have the desktop background behind the tiled start menu.
And a right-mouse-click on the "Starting Block" (as I will now call it) has extra options for shutdown/restart.

Nothing else of importance found so far. No actual useful menus on the desktop  :no:
I think I'd describe it as Windows 8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1  :lol:
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: kitz on July 01, 2013, 09:49:33 AM
Thanks for the info HP I've not tried it yet, but it doesn't seem like anything to get too excited about... More of a token gesture for desktop users.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: Chrysalis on August 13, 2013, 04:28:01 PM
kitz indeed its a start button but "not" a start menu.

apps like startisback are still the way to go for desktop users, but I have been testing win 8.1 on a vm and still many problems remain from win8 rtm for me.

They also removed the image backup feature that was in win 8 rtm (but depreciated).  That really shows dispite these minor changes they put on the gui that they are still pro mobile, as on a mobile device the image backup function had little use whilst on a pc it has a big use.  It would have took microsoft more effort to remove it than to keep it and they removed it.

There is still many features/functions missing that were in win7 and gone in win8. As well as various glaring bugs present.

There is upsides like IE11 which brings netflix without horrible silverlight, IE11 is also pretty fast.  But IE11 also brings forced blurry fonts as the dll wrapper workaround for IE9 (that makes it behave like firefox for fonts) doesnt work on IE10/11. HyperV is nice.  The weather metro app is the best weather app I have seen on anything. But thats about it.  The metro screen is ok as a idle screen, but its bad as a multitask launcher.  The start menu can be viewed with your app still on screen and for that reason its superior, it doesnt need full screen.  Likewise quick launch and the entire taskbar been visible with app running is a far superior design.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: Berrick on August 13, 2013, 08:52:01 PM
Aye,

with Windows 8 unless use install an app like Classic Shell, which apart from adding back the familiar Start Button also adds back of useful features like the shared folder icon, you now have to use two separate buttons to achieve the Start Menu WinKey + Z which gets something like the apps or program side of the start menu (left side) and WinKey + X to get the right hand side of the start menu, things like computer, documents, control panel.

Quote
They also removed the image backup feature

I dont use Windoze 8 so I can't check but is wbadmin not available from the commandline?
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: kitz on August 13, 2013, 08:52:52 PM
Thanks for the additional info and your observations.

I havent come across startisback myself, as Ive been putting Classic Shell on new PCs, which is probably similar.   If you want to add some info and links about it in the Win 8 start Menu thread (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,11931.0.html) please do feel free to do so. :)


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Edited to add

My Post crossed with Berrick's but Im leaving the contents as is.
Title: Re: Microsoft 'U-turn' sees Start button back on Windows 8 + boot to desktop
Post by: Chrysalis on August 14, 2013, 03:59:02 PM
yeah they both very similiar and startisback isnt free whilst classic shell is.