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Author Topic: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B  (Read 13422 times)

konrado5

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Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« on: March 29, 2014, 05:18:20 PM »

Unfortunately SNR tones gap has not disappeared. It is only slight smaller: 415-473 tones are not used (on TP-Link TD-W8950ND 410-477). Line attenuation is almost the same: 24.5 dB/14.6 dB (on TP-Link TD-W8950ND 24.5/14.7 dB).

Moreover, D-Link reported SNR margin on the unused tones.
Code: [Select]
   415          5.0000
   416          4.6875
   417          4.6875
   418          3.5625
   419          2.1250
   420          4.9375
   421          3.6250
   422          2.5625
   423          3.0625
   424          3.1250
   425          3.5000
   426          2.9375
   427          3.5000
   428          3.5000
   429          1.7500
   430          3.1875
   431          -0.1250
   432          1.5625
   433          -0.5000
   434          -0.4375
   435          2.0000
   436          0.0625
   437          0.4375
   438          0.4375
   439          0.2500
   440          0.5000
   441          -2.7500
   442          0.1875
   443          0.3750
   444          0.3750
   445          0.1875
   446          -2.1250
   447          0.0000
   448          0.1875
   449          -0.9375
   450          1.3125
   451          -2.9375
   452          1.1875
   453          -3.2500
   454          1.0625
   455          -4.1875
   456          1.0000
   457          -2.1875
   458          0.9375
   459          -2.1250
   460          1.6250
   461          1.3750
   462          -2.3125
   463          -4.6875
   464          -2.3125
   465          0.1875
   466          1.5625
   467          0.1250
   468          -1.3125
   469          2.7500
   470          0.8750
   471          2.5625
   472          4.0625
   473          5.0000
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:20:24 PM by konrado5 »
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 05:24:52 PM »

Following there is CRC error graph on SNR margin 0.8 dB.

What do you think about this? I have fast path.

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konrado5
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 05:35:52 PM »

Your DS target SNRM has clearly been set far too low. Have you been "tweaking" it?  :-\

At such a low target SNRM, CRC errors are inevitable.

Why not reset the circuit to its default (as supplied by your CP/ISP) and use DSLstats to collect a full 24-hours period of data? Once you have the relevant graphs for that time period, then we may be able to see some trend in the circuit's behaviour.

Overall, things looks to be quite good . . . even with that "lazy" roll in the Hlog graph. (About which I have commented, previously.)
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 05:42:00 PM »

Yes, I have tweaked my SNR margin.
Quote from: burakkucat
At such a low target SNRM, CRC errors are inevitable.
Is it good result with such low SNR margin (about 60-70 es per hour) on fast path?
Quote from: burakkucat
Overall, things looks to be quite good . . . even with that "lazy" roll in the Hlog graph. (About which I have commented, previously.)
But this 415-473 gap is annoying. What do you think about negative SNR on some tones eg. -4.1875 on 455th tone?

Best regards
konrado5
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 09:20:57 PM »

Is it good result with such low SNR margin (about 60-70 es per hour) on fast path?

I think only you will be able to say -- by using the circuit and seeing if it allows an adequate service.

Quote
But this 415-473 gap is annoying.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought your CP/ISP has already told you that the gap is to be expected. I know nothing about how your CP/ISP operates their service. I know nothing about the deployment of xDSL in Poland. I can understand that it is annoying to see the gap but if the service provider has said that it is an expected feature then there is nothing that can be done.

Quote
What do you think about negative SNR on some tones eg. -4.1875 on 455th tone?

Firstly, remember that you are looking at ratio reported in decibels. A logarithmic scale. The fact that the value has a negative sign is just indicating that the ambient "noise" appears to be far greater than the perceived (but non-existent) signal. All you are seeing is the electronics of the modem/router attempting to measure and quantify "something" that is not actually present. We know that there is nothing there because your CP/ISP has previously said so. As far as I am concerned, there is no fault with the modem/router and there is no fault with your circuit . . .  :no:

Capture a full 24 hours of statistics and then post the graphs. Let us see how the circuit behaves in its current configuration.  :)
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 09:51:16 PM »

burakkucat: my ISP didn't say it is delibaretely disabled. My ISP only said it is typical inteference on ADSL2+ long lines. However I know it is not normal. Have you any new idea about this gap given D-Link stats?
Best regards
konrado5
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 10:22:26 PM by konrado5 »
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 10:28:27 PM »

my ISP didn't say it is delibaretely disabled. My ISP only said it is typical inteference on ADSL2+ long lines.

Ah, I see. I am duly corrected.  ;)

Quote
However I know it is not normal. Have you any new idea about this gap given D-Link stats?

No, I am sorry. I can deduce absolutely nothing new.  :(
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 10:31:11 PM »

I don't know if you understood me correctly earlier. On october 2013 I've suddenly got 3 mbps lower synchronization rate. My ISP said me that they have changed DSLAM. They say it is on the other location however I don't believe it because my attenuation is slight lower (not higher). Too bad, I couldn't check bit-loading and SNR on particular tones before October 2013. Since october 2013 I have also slight lower upstream (1221-1233 instead 1261-1277 kbps).

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konrado5
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 10:45:32 PM »

Could you compare my D-Link Hlog with TP-Link Hlog? First is D-Link, second is TP-Link.

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konrado5
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2014, 10:57:20 PM »

Could you compare my D-Link Hlog with TP-Link Hlog? First is D-Link, second is TP-Link.

Certainly.  :)

By eye, I would say that both devices are reporting identical results. The fact that the two different devices show essentially identical results confirms that we are seeing a true representation of the attenuation versus frequency for the circuit.
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2014, 11:05:46 PM »

Quote from: burakkucat
It does not show a smooth decay versus frequency that we would normally expect to see. The undulations may be the result of impedance mismatch, where different sections of cable (of different characteristics) have been joined together.
Is it possible that cause of undulations is also cause of 414-473 gap?
Quote from: burakkucat
Taking copies of the raw data that you have provided and examining it convinces me that, for the 1.8 - 2.0 MHz frequency band, either there is no signal input to the modem's receive circuitry or that modem's receive circuitry is held in a muted state.
Is it implicated the cause is not amateur radio? I think nobody broadcast amateur radio in my town. Look at SNR on those tones:
Code: [Select]
415          5.0000
   416          4.6875
   417          4.6875
   418          3.5625
   419          2.1250
   420          4.9375
   421          3.6250
   422          2.5625
   423          3.0625
   424          3.1250
   425          3.5000
   426          2.9375
   427          3.5000
   428          3.5000
   429          1.7500
   430          3.1875
   431          -0.1250
   432          1.5625
   433          -0.5000
   434          -0.4375
   435          2.0000
   436          0.0625
   437          0.4375
   438          0.4375
   439          0.2500
   440          0.5000
   441          -2.7500
   442          0.1875
   443          0.3750
   444          0.3750
   445          0.1875
   446          -2.1250
   447          0.0000
   448          0.1875
   449          -0.9375
   450          1.3125
   451          -2.9375
   452          1.1875
   453          -3.2500
   454          1.0625
   455          -4.1875
   456          1.0000
   457          -2.1875
   458          0.9375
   459          -2.1250
   460          1.6250
   461          1.3750
   462          -2.3125
   463          -4.6875
   464          -2.3125
   465          0.1875
   466          1.5625
   467          0.1250
   468          -1.3125
   469          2.7500
   470          0.8750
   471          2.5625
   472          4.0625
   473          5.0000

Best regards
konrado5
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2014, 11:47:18 PM »

Quote from: burakkucat
It does not show a smooth decay versus frequency that we would normally expect to see. The undulations may be the result of impedance mismatch, where different sections of cable (of different characteristics) have been joined together.
Is it possible that cause of undulations is also cause of 414-473 gap?

No. I am quite certain that it is not the cause.

Quote
Quote from: burakkucat
Taking copies of the raw data that you have provided and examining it convinces me that, for the 1.8 - 2.0 MHz frequency band, either there is no signal input to the modem's receive circuitry or that modem's receive circuitry is held in a muted state.
Is it implicated the cause is not amateur radio? I think nobody broadcast amateur radio in my town. Look at SNR on those tones:
Code: [Select]
415          5.0000
   416          4.6875
   417          4.6875
   418          3.5625
   419          2.1250
   420          4.9375
   421          3.6250
   422          2.5625
   423          3.0625
   424          3.1250
   425          3.5000
   426          2.9375
   427          3.5000
   428          3.5000
   429          1.7500
   430          3.1875
   431          -0.1250
   432          1.5625
   433          -0.5000
   434          -0.4375
   435          2.0000
   436          0.0625
   437          0.4375
   438          0.4375
   439          0.2500
   440          0.5000
   441          -2.7500
   442          0.1875
   443          0.3750
   444          0.3750
   445          0.1875
   446          -2.1250
   447          0.0000
   448          0.1875
   449          -0.9375
   450          1.3125
   451          -2.9375
   452          1.1875
   453          -3.2500
   454          1.0625
   455          -4.1875
   456          1.0000
   457          -2.1875
   458          0.9375
   459          -2.1250
   460          1.6250
   461          1.3750
   462          -2.3125
   463          -4.6875
   464          -2.3125
   465          0.1875
   466          1.5625
   467          0.1250
   468          -1.3125
   469          2.7500
   470          0.8750
   471          2.5625
   472          4.0625
   473          5.0000

Let us calculate the frequency range for those tones:

415 is ((415 x 4.3125) + 2.15625) kHz = 1792 kHz
473 is ((473 x 4.3125) + 2.15625) kHz = 2042 kHz

There is a very simple way to find out -- with a suitable radio receiver, scan across that frequency range and see what signals are present. Or you could connect a spectrum analyser to the pair and look at signals so present.
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2014, 11:51:16 PM »

burakkucat: are you sure that this gap is not caused by poor line quality/poor joints? Since October 2013 there was not any moment without this gap. It seems permanent. Unfortunately I haven't any radio receiver with this frequiences.

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konrado5
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burakkucat

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2014, 12:04:02 AM »

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am sorry but I do not know.  :no:

There is just one possible explanation . . . it is a rather odd explanation but would certainly fit with your observations. Let us suppose that your CP/ISP has notch-filters, tuned to reject the 160 metre amateur radio band, available to deploy on circuits that are affected by such transmissions. Now let us suppose that at the time when your circuit was connected to the other DSLAM, one of those 160 metre amateur radio band notch-filters was inadvertently connected into your circuit. The end result: no xDSL signal will be present on those tones. 
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konrado5

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Re: Line statistics on D-Link DSL-2740B
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2014, 12:08:08 AM »

Thank you very much for your help. Could you recommend me where else I could describe my problem? Any other forum maybe?

Best regards
konrado5
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