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Author Topic: Old phones still in use  (Read 6444 times)

sheddyian

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Old phones still in use
« on: November 01, 2013, 03:35:42 PM »


I was listening to BBC 6 Music, and a lady called Stuart Maconie's show to participate in The Chain (where listeners nominate a song that's related to the previous one in some (usually obscure) way.

Anyway, Stuart observed that the line quality of the call wasn't too good, and the woman responded that she had one of the old Post Office phones, though didn't say what kind. 

Now, I know these things are available as a retro fit with modern BT plug fitted for those who like that sort of thing.

But it made me wonder - how many of those original Post Office phones (eg the 746) are still hardwired into GPO junction boxes on the windowsill? 

Does Blacksheep et al still encounter these when responding to a "crackly line" that turns out to be the carbon microphone of the 746?

Ian

[The quality fault of the phone in caller was interesting, it wasn't crackling, but there was a distinct hum and a curious higher frequency hiss - wonder if the phone was hardwired without an ADSL filter on a broadband line?]
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burakkucat

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 04:36:32 PM »

Perhaps an image of my refurbished telephone, Type 332, (dated 1956) will be of interest.

It is connected (Plug 431A) to the working pair that provides The Cattery with both telephony and broadband services . . .
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Black Sheep

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 05:08:27 PM »

Hi Ian

I have to say, I can't remember the last time I came across a hardwired old-style phone.

When 'System X' and 'System Y' (Digital) Exchanges were being phased in, approximately 25yrs ago, there was quite an upturn in staffing levels, especially engineering. This was to assist with the change-over programme, which obviously involved upgrading the EU's hard-wired connection, to the NTE5.

There was also mass activity on the Exchange MDF's, as all the old 2-wire jumper connections from Bar/Pair to Strowger/TXE2/TXE4/TXE4A/Crossbar equipment, would in effect become redundant after the new 2-wire jumpers to the digital equipment were made 'live'.

The way this was achieved, was by 'mapping' each MDF layer and using a system called 'Jumpering In Fast Form (JIFF). This meant the wire loom for each 'Jumper bed' could be made up in a different location, and then when completed, lain over the existing wiring on each 'Jumper bed'. (Still with me ??  :) ).
Once this loom was in place, the laborious task of terminating each 2-wire jumper would take place. This would entail 'Double jumpering' (ie: Overwrapping) the new wire on top of the existing wire attached to the Bar/Pair. Then connecting the other side to the 'Sys X'/'Sys Y' (digital) equipment.

Once all the new 'Jumpering' was completed, commissioning of the digital equipment took place using a bit of kit called (from memory), Mobius ??. Once this was completed, the new digital equipment was made 'live'. This meant the Bar/Pair would be initially served by two different systems, so to counter this, 'Dis plugs' (Disconnect plugs) were fitted to each port of the new digital equipment. These plugs each had a hole, that was then threaded with twine and grouped together ready for the big day.

Change-over days were buzzing, as BT's hierarchy would often attend, along with other local dignitaries, plenty of photo-shoots, and then food and pub later in the day. The actual change-over moment was fraught with anguish, especially for the 'Exchange maintenance guys', and we power engineers to a degree. The call would go up, 'Out with the old' ... and the old stuff was switched out, then, 'In with the new' .... and lots of us would be pulling like mad at the twine, ripping out all the 'Dis plugs', thus allowing the new digital equipment to become the new 'feed'. This was done around 6-7am for minimum disruption.

Straight away, the tests would then be made by the 'Exchange Maintenance lads' to large PBX premises, Fire, police, Ambulance, Hospitals etc etc ...... and I have to say, I never witnessed one major service outage.

After the days excitement, the following months were taken removing the old jumper wires and tidying the MDF up.

My apologies for prattling on, but once I started to answer the initial question, I went into free-flow. Ah, memories. ;D ;D

PS ...... the temperature and noise (audible) levels dropped dramatically once the digital systems were up and running. The Strowger and Crossbar equipment in particular, were incredibly hot-running, and you could barely hear yourself speak at peak call-times.
 
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kitz

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 09:35:38 PM »

Perhaps an image of my refurbished telephone, Type 332, (dated 1956) will be of interest.

It is connected (Plug 431A) to the working pair that provides The Cattery with both telephony and broadband services . . .

The cord fascinated me,  Ive never seen a non-plastic cord before.

Thanks for sharing b*cat
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 09:53:40 PM »

I have a couple of 70s style phones ('700' series?), though I only plug them in for special occasions like when I have visitors.

But when they ring for an incoming call, it's always a 'Wow' from the guests, if they're old enough to remember.   Even just to pick up the phone and shake it, the sound of that 'ting', suddenly turns back the clocks.  :)
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sheddyian

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 10:09:01 PM »

Thanks for the picture B*cat - I'm not quite old enough to remember those phones, just the Post Office 746 phones
like this


Thanks for that detailed & fascinating explanation of switchover Black Sheep.  I can remember getting a letter telling my the phones would be off early one morning whilst the move to System X/Y took place at my local exchange in the mid/late 80's, and I had wondered a few times how it was accomplished if there were thousands of subscriber lines to move in the space of 30 - 60 minutes.

A couple of links that may interest :

GPO Phones company make quite a range of reproduction "old" phones - some of them do look quite appealing, not sure about the USB turntable though!
http://www.gpophone.com/en/products
Wonder if the hand crank actually does anything on those phones lower down the page?  And their logo looks oddly familiar!

Secret Life of Machines on The Telephone (via Youtube)

http://youtu.be/MCgCSMq5Xpo
As well as the history of phones and exchanges, there's some nice footage of a then working Strowger exchange and an engineer adjusting one of it's units, and a look at a "modern" system X /Y exchange.
Programme was made in late 80's as I recall.  If you don't want to watch it all, the Strowger part starts at around 15:00 into the programme - though you'll miss explanations of how phones work, and some examples of some really old phones.

Ian
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 10:16:15 PM »

Last time I tried mine, the loop disconnect ('pulse') dialling still worked. Makes me wonder...

How long will BT continue to support it?
and
How much inconvenience (cost overheads) does it incur?

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sheddyian

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 10:28:42 PM »

Last time I tried mine, the loop disconnect ('pulse') dialling still worked. Makes me wonder...

How long will BT continue to support it?
and
How much inconvenience (cost overheads) does it incur?

I'd wrongly believed that my pulse dial phone would stop working when we switched over to digital exchanges in the late 1980's!

Actually, I was quite annoyed - in 1986/87 I'd bought a British Telecom push button phone with an LCD display that showed the number you were dialling (caller display didn't exist back then!) and only later realised it was ONLY loop disconnect - there was no switch for DTMF!

I note with interest on that site I linked to earlier, the reproduction 746 phone (and a few others) have what seems to be an actual rotating dial (not buttons arranged in a dial configuration) but also has * and # as well.

Wonder if it pulse dials or the rotating dial sends tones?

Ian
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 10:40:27 PM »

I note with interest on that site I linked to earlier, the reproduction 746 phone (and a few others) have what seems to be an actual rotating dial (not buttons arranged in a dial configuration) but also has * and # as well.

Wonder if it pulse dials or the rotating dial sends tones?

Ian

Interesting indeed.

I'm pretty sure that would confirm they use DTMF.   Much faster if you're having a heart attack or if house is on fire and you want to dial 999, but IMHO they're missing out on part of the retro experience.    :D
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burakkucat

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 11:56:43 PM »

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Black Sheep

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 12:45:12 PM »

Last time I tried mine, the loop disconnect ('pulse') dialling still worked. Makes me wonder...

How long will BT continue to support it?
and
How much inconvenience (cost overheads) does it incur?

I'd wrongly believed that my pulse dial phone would stop working when we switched over to digital exchanges in the late 1980's!

Actually, I was quite annoyed - in 1986/87 I'd bought a British Telecom push button phone with an LCD display that showed the number you were dialling (caller display didn't exist back then!) and only later realised it was ONLY loop disconnect - there was no switch for DTMF!

I note with interest on that site I linked to earlier, the reproduction 746 phone (and a few others) have what seems to be an actual rotating dial (not buttons arranged in a dial configuration) but also has * and # as well.

Wonder if it pulse dials or the rotating dial sends tones?

Ian

I remember getting quite a few faults, some years after the switch to digital, that required a phone call to our OMC (Operation Management Centre), to have DTMF applied, as the circuit was set to PD only. Slipped through the net, so to speak. The EU would only realise after purchasing a more modern device. Nice, easy faults. Oh for the halcyon days of pre-broadband.  ;) ;D
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geep

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 04:12:03 PM »

Our "modern" phone packed up recently - the one with the blue "Mercury" button.
I still had an old phone - with push buttons - we used when we lived in France in the 1980s - equipped with a French plug.
Luckily I'd got some adapter cables -  French to RJ11 and RJ11 to BT103.
Strung them all together and it all works - and it's pulse dialling too.

Cheers,
Peter
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GigabitEthernet

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Re: Old phones still in use
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 04:15:14 PM »

We have an 'old-style' corded phone, with the old fashioned 'buttons', but that's it. It's all digital otherwise :(.
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