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[snadge]

as per topic title - have BT been installing mostly ECI DSLAMs in the FTTC cabs?

ive been told they have and do?

also, is it ALWAYS the case the Broadcom (Huawei) + ECI DSLAM = lower sync speed + interleaving etc? or just most/some of the time?


cheers

[Chrysalis]

I had a HG back in dec 2012, and I am on a eci dslam.

The biggest factor I suspect is local stock levels at the time of installation.

I think a chipset mismatch 'may' increase errors on the line but that doesnt necessarily mean interleaving.  In my view if a mismatch is enough to cause interleaving then the line probably wasnt too good to begin with.

Also even on a ECI dslam the HG syncs higher, so on a HG dslam I would be surprised if the HG did not sync higher than the ECI.

sorry misread.

I have no idea, but a comment made by BT in a shareholder announcement said the ECI contract made many of the newer exchanges viable which previously werent, also I have noted that most people with HG dslams are in early areas of the rollout.  These 2 things together suggest ECI will dominate newer areas.  If ECI gets vectoring then hopefully its not a big deal, but if vectoring is HG only then people like me in ECI areas wont be too happy.

[waltergmw]

Here in Surrey we have a mixture of DSLAMs but all later ones are ECIs. The only (sensible) exceptions I know of are two second FTTCs installed due to under capacity on the Guildford exchange which are all Huawei.

Apart from costs, I suspect the unease over security considerations has probably prohibited any new exchanges from Huawei equipment.

Kind regards,
Walter

[snadge]

thanks for the replies

@ Chrysalis - what makes you think that one might get vectoring and the other wont? seems a bit odd because there are ECI/ECI - ECI/Huawei - Huawei/ECI - Huawei/Huawei setups, from what ive read that vectoring will be required as either update of hardware or software at each end of the connection, so if ECI only had vectoring then it would only work on the ECI/ECI connections? - as BT have mixed them up it seems to me they now have to have a vectoring system that either works on same on both systems over all 4 setups , OR , they have to replace all Huawei (or ECI) stock installed in cabs and end users modems.

theres also the ISPs that might start using their own FTTC modems built into routers.. I know some ISPs are trialing such things already, if ISPs start dishing out their own routers for FTTC then this makes vectoring more difficult to pin down, or am i missing something?

[burakkucat]

The ECI Hi-FOCuS M41 DSLAM, which is fitted in all ECI cabinets, is incapable of supporting vectoring. Each one would need to be swapped out for a V41 DSLAM (IIRC). 

The Huawei SmartAX MA5616 DSLAM, which is fitted in all Huawei cabinets, is capable of supporting vectoring with a configuration change. I believe a firmware change may also be required.

[snadge]

The ECI Hi-FOCuS M41 DSLAM, which is fitted in all ECI cabinets, is incapable of supporting vectoring. Each one would need to be swapped out for a V41 DSLAM (IIRC). 

The Huawei SmartAX MA5616 DSLAM, which is fitted in all Huawei cabinets, is capable of supporting vectoring with a configuration change. I believe a firmware change may also be required.

and whats the crack with end-user equipment with the Huawei FW upgrade?

do you think BT will swap out all these DSLAMs to support vectoring? I bet they let it drag on for as long as possible until everyones got FTTC and crosstalk is so bad that its a poor service and they 'have' to do something about it!

[burakkucat]

Any firmware upgrade that may be required on Huawei DSLAMs or CPEs can be performed remotely -- TR-069, remember.

As for vectoring, I expect Beatie to trial it in a few selected areas but not to actually deploy it. Do you see her spending money on replacing ECI Hi-FOCus M41 DSLAMs with vectoring-capable equipment? 

[snadge]

Any firmware upgrade that may be required on Huawei DSLAMs or CPEs can be performed remotely -- TR-069, remember.

sorry, wasnt clear - I meant do customers need new equipment or just fw upgrade.... (not how will it be done) im speculating that if Huawei DSLAM can be FW upgraded to Vectoring then a Huawei modem can too?

I mention elsewhere of ISPs using their own routers for VDSL (as some are testing these now), this all makes it even more difficult for a 'universal' vectoring solution to be deployed! 

[asbokid]

The DSLAMs are already obsolete as BT is installing them.  E.g. the Huawei MA5616 has a new controller board (the CCUC) which support higher port density line cards.  With an enhanced subrack and newer firmware version (V800R311) the MA5616 already support vectoring, while the existing kit that's fitted in our cabinets does not.   As for the ECI, the V41 supports vectoring out-of-the-box, and yet the ECI M41 DSLAM is still being installed :-(

Vectoring is probably 3 years away (at least) before we start to see vector-enabled DSLAMs installed in street cabinets. And possibly 5+ years before vector-enabled DSLAMs are installed as replacements.

As with all technology, if BT hung around waiting for the next big technological leap to mature before investing, the company (and its subscribers) would be waiting for ever. 

cheers, a

[snadge]

The DSLAMs are already obsolete as BT is installing them.  E.g. the Huawei MA5616 has a new controller board (the CCUC) which support higher port density line cards.  With an enhanced subrack and newer firmware version (V800R11) the MA5616 already support vectoring, while the existing kit that's fitted in our cabinets does not.   As for the ECI, the V41 supports vectoring out-of-the-box, and yet the ECI M41 DSLAM is still being installed :-(

Vectoring is probably 3 years away (at least) before we start to see vector-enabled DSLAMs installed in street cabinets. And possibly 5+ years before vector-enabled DSLAMs are installed as replacements.

As with all technology, if BT hung around waiting for the next big technological leap to mature before investing, the company (and its subscribers) would be waiting for ever. 

cheers, a

thanks Asbo..

so just how bad can crosstalk get? - say everyone (or almost everyone) had FTTC then whats the potential loss...?  I know those in middle of cable bundle get it worse...is that right? and those on outer edge of bundle not so much?

[asbokid]

There's a great amount of study gone into VDSL2 crosstalk.  Engineers have tried to model it in the lab.  How well they've actually captured its behaviour and properties, who knows. Every line is different, and some can be very different!

cheers, a

[c6em]

@snadge
As regards Modem compatiblity wth vectoring:

BT Sine 498 Issue 4.3
Section 3.2.2 (Page 21)
R.VDSL2.12
The modem shall support 17MHz Vectoring as defined in G.993.5.
This requires the modem to be "vector ready"

No idea what date this clause was inserted in the standard
So all modems from any source sold/issued in the UK since this date will be OK.
As to the earlier ones.....who knows.

[waltergmw]

@ Snadge,

I don't think the VDSL cable pair density can get anywhere near full capacity as the DSLAMS fitted are (usually) way below the PCP pair counts and all D sides, for most PCPs, have only one FTTC.
(Except in very densely populated PCPs with two).

In any case there must usually be many pairs without any xDSL services in a PCP.

Kind regards,
Walter

[Black Sheep]

In my area, which is quite large, the majority of FTTC are Huawei. We have one largish town fed via ECI and the ammount of 'Lift and shifts' we do on those cabs, or the times these aren't possible due to no workable spare ports, is off the scale.

Personal experience -- Huawei every time. 

[waltergmw]

Gentlefolk,

Just to confound my earlier statement I see BT and their subcontractors are installing Huawei cabinets in Bramley in the Guildford area.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THBL

Kind regards,
Walter