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Author Topic: No Master NTE Socket  (Read 5417 times)

cassiejm

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No Master NTE Socket
« on: July 25, 2012, 07:12:18 PM »

I've already posted in ADSL issues 'Broadband Problems' and this is part of that issue.

We do not have a Master NTE socket in our premises.  We have had our property from new for over 5 years now.  The phone cable drops off a pole into underground ducting and then up into the loft via the garage.  Never really gave it much thought until now - typical only when you've got a problem!!

Our property only had 2 sockets, the first one in the hallway and another in the lounge by the tv aerial for Sky (unused).   When BT visited to do whatever they have to do when you pay out £124.99 + for the connection, the technician gave OH a socket to fit himself (he's an electrician) to provide a further socket for the Broadband in another room. 

How do we stand if an engineer visits (SFI) and finds no NTE - where is the demarcation point for BT wiring and ours?? 


 
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burakkucat

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 11:10:46 PM »

It does reads as if you have a rather novel connection!  :-\

The simplest way for us to advise you would be after viewing "what's what". Would you be able to take a sequence of photographs, starting from the pole top and then all the way to the two currently installed sockets, please? Include any junction boxes, etc, in the photographs.

There is a possibility that with a five year old property, you might have a (now obsolete) XNTE. If that is the case then all the wiring from the XNTE, including that within the house and the sockets are your property.  :-X
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cassiejm

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 02:47:50 PM »

Hi burakkucat

Thanks for the response.  I would advise that we definitely do not have an XNTE (have Googled the image) - just the grey BT capping /shield on the wall where the black BT cable comes up out of the ground.

Anyhow, will try and get some photos as requested and will post later

J   
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burakkucat

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 04:06:32 PM »

Quote
I would advise that we definitely do not have an XNTE (have Googled the image) - just the grey BT capping /shield on the wall where the black BT cable comes up out of the ground.

That is good news. :)  So assuming that there is no other form of an NTP (network termination point) fitted and currently no NTE5/A exists within your house, then you are entitled to a free-of-charge Openreach engineering visit to normalise the wiring and to install an NTE5/A.

When you are able to post some pictures (or a link to the pictures, hosted elsewhere), that will certainly clarify things.
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kitz

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2012, 07:33:48 AM »

Although you say theres no NTE5, then its possible that the house could have a LJU3 master socket (or even LJU2 master) which will be the demarkation point.   If in doubt you should be able to quickly and easily identify which is the master socket by unscrewing it and looking to see if it has a capacitor.

Theres some images on this page that will help you identify what you are looking for
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm

I was quite surprised that about 5 yrs ago my parents paid for BT to come and move the master socket to the hallway, and rather than installing an NTE he used an LJU2
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burakkucat

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2012, 07:16:22 PM »

Quote
I was quite surprised that about 5 yrs ago my parents paid for BT to come and move the master socket to the hallway, and rather than installing an NTE he used an LJU2

That really depends upon what was specified on the engineer's job sheet and what your parents had fitted previously. If it was down as a "move master socket from x-room to hallway", then that is what he would do. Perhaps he decided to provide a new LJ rather than attempt to use the existing one? (Possibly 25 years old, cracked and with paint smears?)

The current procedure (this year, 2012) is to fit an NTE5/A at all EU premises that do not have one installed. It will be at the closest point to where the service feed enters into the building. This will be done as part of a FTTC installation, as part of a fault repair or upon EU request. The latter request has to be submitted to Openreach by the CP / ISP on the EU's behalf as a wiring normalisation task. (Best of all, it's FOC.)
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cassiejm

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 02:49:59 PM »

Quote
I would advise that we definitely do not have an XNTE (have Googled the image) - just the grey BT capping /shield on the wall where the black BT cable comes up out of the ground.

That is good news. :)  So assuming that there is no other form of an NTP (network termination point) fitted and currently no NTE5/A exists within your house, then you are entitled to a free-of-charge Openreach engineering visit to normalise the wiring and to install an NTE5/A.

When you are able to post some pictures (or a link to the pictures, hosted elsewhere), that will certainly clarify things.

Have managed to get some photos as requested:

http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r562/1camali5/BT/

Hope these come out OK. 

Also contained in the above is a photo of the back of the wiring into the hallway socket from which it can be seen there is NO capacitator and according to my OH is definitely a secondary socket.

FYI the wiring runs into the garage, up into the loft space has no further junction blocks or boxes.  The white cable runs halfway across the loft void and then drops down into the hallway to the socket there which is approx 40 ft away from the BT capped entry point.  The only other socket being used is for Broadband which was done by OH (electrician) which ironically is a 'BT' socket handed across by the engineer as advised in my first posting when we first moved in and BT came to check the connection.

 
   
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burakkucat

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012, 05:26:42 PM »

Thank you for the link to the photographs. They definitely help.

Referring to the one with the caption "Without top cap", am I correct in assuming that the coiled wires to the left are the spare wires from the service feed cable that comes from underground? And the coiled wires to the right are the spare wires from the cable feeding into the garage and, thus, the house? Assuming your answer is "Yes" and "Yes", then that is good.

From your clear description of the internal cable's progress, I now need to refer to the photograph captioned "Main Socket". I concur. That is just a flush mounting LJU3/3A "extension" socket.

It does appear that from the description & visual evidence provided there is no NTP at your premises and, thus, all wiring and sockets belong to & are are the responsibility of Openreach.

My advice is that you make contact with the entity to whom you pay for your telephone service and clearly state that you do not have a NTP within your premises. Stress that there in no XNTE nor NTE5/A and that you would appreciate an appointment for a FOC Openreach engineering visit to "normalise the wiring" and fit an NTE5/A.

 :)

[Edited to attach the three most relevant pictures from the link to this message.]
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 07:39:23 PM by burakkucat »
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burakkucat

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Re: No Master NTE Socket
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2012, 07:56:06 PM »

On making the edit to my previous post (so as to attach the three images), it does seem as if there are three white cables visible in 058_opt.jpg.

One would be the incoming service feed which originates at 059_opt.jpg, the second and third to run to the other two sockets. I've just re-read --

Quote
Our property only had 2 sockets, the first one in the hallway and another in the lounge by the tv aerial for Sky (unused).   When BT visited to do whatever they have to do when you pay out £124.99 + for the connection, the technician gave OH a socket to fit himself (he's an electrician) to provide a further socket for the Broadband in another room.

You now have three sockets. The one in the hallway (058_opt.jpg), the one "in the lounge by the tv aerial for Sky (unused)" and the one "for the Broadband in another room", fitted by your electrician OH.

I now understand what has happened -- if there are, indeed, three cables that I see in 058_opt.jpg. You OH has wired up the third socket, from the first, such that the pre-existing second socket is acting as a bridged-tap. Although what he has done is perfectly logical for electricity supply circuits and for telephones, it is not the correct method to use on a telephone circuit that will also carry a broadband service. Oops!  :-X

I would really like to see another couple of pictures of the hall socket. One that clearly shows which colour wire, from which cable, is connected to which IDC and a second one that shows the cables in the backing box within the wall.

For good measure, ditto the one "in the lounge by the tv aerial for Sky (unused)" and ditto the one "for the Broadband in another room".
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:19:51 PM by burakkucat »
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